12ga.10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores--
, December 02 2011 05:14 AM
115 replies to this topic
Jul. 24 2016 - 12:09 AM
Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver
wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.
Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga one BPI has.
Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.
It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,
by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a
Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported
the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.
That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The
2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,
from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.
He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..
Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.ED
Aug. 08 2016 - 09:54 AM
Fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, has worked with
Bertram and got the run of full length 12ga From Hell cases done.
Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.
Any wanting to get some, contact Bertram at the email -----
Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal Cartridge and Mitchell Fitzpatrick's win.......
.375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.
Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,
Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms
muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make
these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..
Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,
a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.
The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid performed great, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).
Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.
The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed
Oct. 02 2016 - 06:15 AM
Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan
Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.
Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering
for our case as it came from production line,.
I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.
We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.
Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted
a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and
handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,
Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat
375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed
Oct. 02 2016 - 06:41 AM
Those cases look great, love that head stamp. Although I still love that 375 Warlord.
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Jan. 07 2017 - 04:27 PM
Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.
Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published in Oct, now out for sale,
We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
The other couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different
shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the other one...Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. King of 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,
Here's how we size and seat 375 HE, a simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.
I do primer work separate, not in the press.That way I can clean pocket, check
flash hole,....... SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.
When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight. About .35" down.
So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,
Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,
After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.
These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.
OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.
All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed
Feb. 01 2017 - 08:39 AM
Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in
Africa with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture
Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that
are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind
from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 on
another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,
We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with
lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,
Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed
to get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints are
at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed
Mar. 12 2017 - 03:33 AM
Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HE
they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from
ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be
over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load..
Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.
Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet.
Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.
So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.
Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,
test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.
When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys
Soon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,
Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for
our bigger case .Ed
Apr. 25 2017 - 06:56 PM
Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for the expanding slug.
Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases,
2 on left necked, 2 on right formed in hydro die after necking..
Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. In the picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 HE, 4th 378 WEA.
416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and srtill be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.
Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..
Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes also,
Questions, PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..
Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" ,
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed
Jun. 26 2017 - 06:58 PM
Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..
Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.
Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..
Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )...
It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.
Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed
Jul. 23 2017 - 09:02 PM
The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....
The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,
has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,
on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..
More info out now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case
proportions, too sharp of shoulders, too fast of powders...........
and debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.
Jul. 23 2017 - 09:23 PM
Thanks once again for the update. I would like to see that 416HE in action, it definitely looks very capable. How does the 375 Warlord compare to the 416HE?
Lol, yeah I wuld say that 12ga needs a tad more clearance, hope no one was hurt.
Sep. 04 2017 - 09:53 PM
the 416 HE is .010" longer,
Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made by necking our 585 HE big belted case.
Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM on the right..
Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,
A 375 HE, with Lawton action, few are being done with those,Ed .....
Oct. 09 2017 - 02:57 PM
A 585 HE ...shot with moderate heavy load......
Here is a 375 HE target gun set up, by Asteroid Precision...
Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,
bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started
and is checking on better powder, Ed..
Nov. 10 2017 - 11:47 PM
Here is recap simple setup to get faster loads with 12ga sabots
& slugs, Example using break actions...., reaming chamber
in a 12ga break action to 3.5" with a 3.5" 12ga reamer, that isn't
something needing special order, and use 3.5" plastic cases , or
get 3.5" brass cases made. With mag shotgun primers and
our slower powder loads you can get a quarter more speed,
which gives 50% more energy...
585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light.....
Another view of Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,
Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed
Nov. 11 2017 - 08:27 AM
OMG 190 ft lbs. Lol, my little 300wsm is at 27 in my rifle. The 600 Nitro Express is only 154 (12 lb gun)
Jan. 11 2018 - 11:55 PM
Here in picture of the cases, are shown the steps in making
our 416 HSM case, from BMG brass,, Ed
We might have a company that is doing a bolt gun with an action
between BMG size and longer rifle actions used for 375 HE,
375 Lethal, and Cheytacs.. To use for our 416 HSM without
having to do extreme rebating of the rim.
Here is picture of 620 416 hsm cases half done. Done on cnc ,
that slimmed them down, cut new rim and extractor groove.
There are over 500 more at cnc getting done now, plus we have
1000s more bmg cases we make them from, when needed..
This case is public domain and if anyone wants to make
them we can give the steps involved...Ed.
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