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How OEM Tell Reloads Have Been Fired


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#1 OFFLINE   GoldnBullet

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Posted Jan. 20 2015 - 11:07 PM

How do OEM (factory) tell if reloads have been fired through firearms? I was told by an ex Co-worker that dye is put in aftermarket gun powder.


#2 OFFLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Jan. 21 2015 - 12:00 AM

How do OEM (factory) tell if reloads have been fired through firearms? I was told by an ex Co-worker that dye is put in aftermarket gun powder.

When a gun blows up, most manufactures will tell you to contact the ammo manufacturer and they can do an analysis of the residue especially if you don't have proof of purchase of the said ammo gernaded in the tube. If the ammo is at fault they fix it, if they can prove it was the gun and their ammo functioned as designed, it goes back on the gun manufacturer.


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#3 OFFLINE   The_Shadow

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Posted Jan. 21 2015 - 10:55 AM

I know of no test for dye in factory v.s. handloaded powders.  I have seen the same powders used in factory ammo as is sold to the public in the pull-downs I have done.

I understand that there were some proprietary powders for some of the major manufacturers but mostly coatings and treatments for flash and deterrents.

 

Many of the KB's I have seen were poor loading practices, progressive loading mishaps that lead to over charges.  Most of the stuff being seen today is the wrong cartridge being used in the wrong upper as in the AR's or brass that is very poorly made and reused in unsupported chambers!

 

Yes there can still be factory made ammo that can also have issues in guns, The quality of the firearms of use and maintenance thereof could also lead to the problems as well.

 

It is best to know your guns, study the performance of the ammunition you are using as it relates to your firearm.

 

On a side note, I rarely fired factory ammo for over the past 35 years, everything I shoot was loaded by me and is hand weighed to Custom Match Grade loads.  


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#4 OFFLINE   TomJefferson

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Posted Jan. 21 2015 - 12:13 PM

Its an old cop tactic............a lie to get you to confess so they don't have to pay up. 


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#5 OFFLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Jan. 21 2015 - 01:01 PM

What it comes down to is if you do not have a proof of purchase like a lot number and upc code, you are screwed. Like I said they can do an analysis, but it is very costly and probally would not be done unless there is a personal injury lawsuit involved. Guns are just to easy and cheap for them to fix and replace.




#6 OFFLINE   gandog56

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Posted Feb. 29 2016 - 02:07 PM

Yep, sounds like just one more conspiracy theory. Dye my butt!




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#7 OFFLINE   gshayd

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Posted Mar. 01 2016 - 03:02 PM

What it comes down to is if you do not have a proof of purchase like a lot number and upc code, you are screwed. Like I said they can do an analysis, but it is very costly and probally would not be done unless there is a personal injury lawsuit involved. Guns are just to easy and cheap for them to fix and replace.

If a large amount of $$$ for personal injury is involved they would probably do an analysis.  If you just want your firearm repaired it would be cheaper to just replace it.




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#8 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Mar. 04 2016 - 10:50 AM

They only know when you tell them. No dye exists in powders we use. The Gov't wanted to use tagents (SP) in powder so they could trace lot numbers. Here is some testimony on that.

 

https://www.nraila.o...and-gun-powders

 

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#9 OFFLINE   BushXM15

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Posted Apr. 22 2016 - 06:05 PM

Finally something I definitively KNOW  : There is a Tracer compound which BY LAW must be put into Factory POWDER   . An it's slightly different for Every  Manufacturer . An You would be surprised that some Ammo manufacturers DON'T even know it's there  !.

 

An Commercial bulk lots not intended for retail are traced differently ( just the compound ) .  

 

A  Spectrometer or spectrophotometer is used to determine the tracer . Think about it for a moment . If Powder manufactures DIDN'T lace their powder  ; HOW would or could it be determined that it was THEIR powder which caused the explosion  or another manufacturers mix or worse yet some local yokal removing their content and replacing it with a NO NO : An Then Suing Ammo manufacturer along with Firearm manufacturer .

 

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Edited by BushXM15, Apr. 22 2016 - 06:08 PM.



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#10 ONLINE   MontanaLon

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Posted Apr. 22 2016 - 06:49 PM

Finally something I definitively KNOW  : There is a Tracer compound which BY LAW must be put into Factory POWDER   . An it's slightly different for Every  Manufacturer . An You would be surprised that some Ammo manufacturers DON'T even know it's there  !.

 

An Commercial bulk lots not intended for retail are traced differently ( just the compound ) .  

 

A  Spectrometer or spectrophotometer is used to determine the tracer . Think about it for a moment . If Powder manufactures DIDN'T lace their powder  ; HOW would or could it be determined that it was THEIR powder which caused the explosion  or another manufacturers mix or worse yet some local yokal removing their content and replacing it with a NO NO : An Then Suing Ammo manufacturer along with Firearm manufacturer .

 

 Remember Your Phone !?.   THEY HAVE THE MEANS BELIEVE ME !!!... 

If that is the case where are the stories of murders that are being solved with analysis of the Tracer compound? If they can prove a gun blew up shooting so and so powder then they can determine also if the suspected murderer had fired a gun with that exact powder.

 

Taggants as far as I know were determined to be cost ineffective when added to bulk blasting agents because it increased the cost of blasting agents by several times. There are millions of tons of bulk blasting agents used in the US each year but it only takes a pound or 2 to make a bomb.  




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#11 OFFLINE   The_Shadow

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Posted Apr. 27 2016 - 09:24 AM

What investigators look for are residue on the person or at the scene, this is mostly nitrates and unburnt powder particulate,  Powder that was consumed in the burning process was chemically changed anyway.  Yes they do use gas chromatography mass spectrometry for analysis of the chemical makeup and Ion mobility spectrometry (IMS) (is a newer in the field use but detects the products before hand).

 

The chemical signature may classify a particular smokeless powder that was used...
If interested you can visit this website for some interesting facts...http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/




#12 OFFLINE   mpsporttoter

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Posted Apr. 30 2016 - 01:56 PM

Hmmmm...it all sounds like a Commie plot to me.




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#13 OFFLINE   Medic07

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Posted Apr. 30 2016 - 08:07 PM

So THAT's where all the Iodine is going??? Fuzzers tell us it is to prevent meth labs but in reality it's an additive in our reloading powders........MUST be  part of Obama's hidden agenda and executive action, I'm sure! Along with all the .22 cal ammo underground stockpiles!!!

 

It's a conspiracy I tell ya! :tap:




#14 OFFLINE   puke

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Posted Feb. 05 2017 - 12:18 AM

Kaboom's can be mostly eliminated if you use a slower powder.  I believe I read somewhere that there was a court case where someone was suing an ammo. mfgr. over a 44 mag kaboom.  I think in court the defendant stated that they only used H110 in their 44 mag loads and that it was not possible to get enough h110 into the round to blow it up.  

 

That statement is a little bold,.. but I believe it is probably a true statement. I read of one instance where a lady brought a 44 mag blackhawk into a gunsmith because something was wrong... I think he found around 4 or 5 bullets in that barrel.....IT NEVER BLEW UP!.. He cleared the bullets and gave the gun back.

 

Most kabooms I have heard of had to do with small charges of fast powder... And the person doing the loading always swears he didn't double charge. I know of one instance where a 30-30 went kaboom with factory ammo and the only weird thing was that the ammo was in a truck window in the hot summmer.... It was  nearly too hot to touch.  So...I guess you could blame that one on temperature. After hearing that I never leave ammo where the sun can shine on it through a truck window.

 

A friend asked me to chrony one of his handloads in his 1911  45 auto. I think it was a 225 grain or so.  It was a very stiff load. I shot one round and it chrony'd at 1450 fps... I handed him back his gun and told him that either the chrony picked up a bug or something....or he didn't have the powder charge in that he thought he did. Within a week of that incident he had to send his 1911 back to taurus because it quit ejecting properly... I think he had messed up a part and they replaced the part and sent it back.







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