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Bundy's going full retard prior to their trial


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#21 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 04:50 AM

 

These people were not exercising their right to assemble though, they were committing felonies.  Apples to oranges.

As I noted, the two types of events I am trying to discuss are not directly related.

What I am trying to get people to think about and discuss is the danger of the people focusing about "how many" weapons and ammunition were present.

 

If it comes to the point where pro 2A people must commit acts of civil disobedience, my concern is that they will be lumped together with the Bundy types

simply because they have "so many" weapons. Must we disarm to be able to protest ? I am trying to look further down the road. 

 

I know the utter disdain you have for the Bundy family. I am trying to get you and others to peel back the onion and look at some of the possible ramifications of concentrating on the fact that, as you stated, that they had so many arms and ammunition.  Would you have objected as much if each participant had only his CCW sidearm and 2 mags on his belt ? 

 

Your reference to apples and oranges is spot on. The sheeple and the press are not known for their expertise in making distinctions when it comes to weapons. My exact point is I don't want to be considered a Bundy orange when I and so many others are Appleseeds and that we will have to protest if the administration tries to effectively dismantle the Second Amendment. 


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#22 OFFLINE   TomJefferson

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 05:47 AM

You all do know Bundy didn't have a gun right?  The renig on his sentence deal is what sparked the whole thing. 

 

Second, nobody was kept from anything.  The facility was closed for the season. 

 

What I learned most about this wasn't the people involved, it was the Federal Government land grab and just how little land, not just Oregon, people out west control these days.  That's followed by a renewed surprise how ignorant Federal policy of "do nothing" is the perfect answer is of land management, ie don't understand controlled fires and if you are putting out natural fires you are altering the environment.  They're like evil children, mine, mine, mine, controlled fire bad, forest fire from lightening bad and foremost rancher bad.  I'm all for parks and national forest but damn, they're still grabbing land and states are being taken over.  

 

.............and yes, Retcop the day comes you have to do some civil disobedience thing, you will be colored with the exact same pen as these men, exact.   During the Bill Clinton war on Militia's the media colored the TN Militia a state sponsored support group that at the time did not  even involve guns, all veterans, doing disaster relief things like that, and directly reported to the Secretary of State of TN,  with the same pen as a nutcase five man groups in Wyoming or somewhere like that.  It almost destroyed the organization and its still nothing like what it was.  

 

These aren't the first guys to take over something and have guns on them in my lifetime.  What I can tell you is having a gun on you doesn't automatically make you a criminal but that's how the media will portray it.  Their slant will always be left and they lie. 

 

I just don't see the big "OMG the sky is falling" big frggen deal about a bunch of Bubbas taking over an empty rural facility.  The Wall Street sit ins were a 1,000 times more inconvenient to the public.  BLM protest are downright dangerous.  As far as I'm concerned, they could have let Bubba sit out there all winter and freeze his butt off. 

 

Bubba's do stupid shat and go to jail for it all the time.  That wasn't the Tea Party or Bunker HIll.  It was a bunch of Bubba's the most exciting thing in their life a new case of beer becoming media famous and prodded by the media.

 

Tj


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#23 ONLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 10:32 AM

Ryan Bundy now wants to see Judge Browns law license and the courts insurance information "in case the public is harmed."   :lol:

https://www.scribd.c...s-to-Ryan-Bundy

 

It sure is nice of him to keep filing this stuff, I am sure it saves the courthouse money on toilet paper.




#24 OFFLINE   Pepper

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 11:46 AM

These people were not exercising their right to assemble though, they were committing felonies.  Apples to oranges.


Exactly this. A burglary is not a demonstration.


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#25 OFFLINE   Pepper

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 11:50 AM

Commit a felony while armed, you are no longer a gun owner. We have been. Clamoring for years for a stronger response to gun crime instead of new gun control. I guess that only applies to those whose crimes don't take shots at the federal government.

Make nice with nutcase sovereigns, expect to be viewed that way.


#26 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 12:21 PM

You're missing the point.

 

I give up. My communication skills must be lacking.




#27 OFFLINE   Pepper

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 12:51 PM

You're missing the point.

 

I give up. My communication skills must be lacking.

Probably. You're equating what the Bundys did with protesting, which it's not. And yes, if people protesting happen to be carrying a gun, and the gun is involved in a crime they commit while protesting, they should have sentences enhanced. Further. I don't think it's a good idea to protest with a gun, because if someone else does something stupid, they will lump you right in with it. 




#28 OFFLINE   TomJefferson

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 12:52 PM

Commit a felony while armed, you are no longer a gun owner. We have been. Clamoring for years for a stronger response to gun crime instead of new gun control. I guess that only applies to those whose crimes don't take shots at the federal government.

Make nice with nutcase sovereigns, expect to be viewed that way.

Yeah you will be viewed that way but it feeds a false rhetoric that there's this movement out there somewhere that is for overthrowing the US government.  There wasn't when Clinton held office and there's not now.  Instead its isolated bunch of redneck Bubbas with not enough sense when they get together to go home once they accomplished their goal while the getten was good. They were given every opportunity. 

 

Now we can debate when the line was crossed but with me it was when the OF got shot.  Right, wrong, or indifferent on the how and why he got shot, at that point their actions resulted in a death.  They started a chain reaction that ended with that climax, doesn't matter if it was a righteous shoot or a heart attack.  At that point, simply walk away became a no can do.  Now Bubba can sit in prison and enjoy knowing he's some sort of peoples hero, when he's not.  There's simply no big sovereign nation movement.  By its nature, it insures it will never be big.  Even the Wounded Knee standoff, they left it alone long enough even with media coverage, it became a bunch of isolated idiots in the middle of nowhere. Same thing at Waco, instead of backing off then picking nutcase up and select followers up at will, it fed the rhetoric to rush in and that decision came all the way from the Attorney General. 

 

This happens every left wing administration.  If they can't find the right wing boogeyman, they create one.  Meanwhile the left wing ones are marching down our streets and cops lay dead.  

 

If there is one thing that bugs me more about this whole thing, it wasn't they had guns, it was they gave the left their right wing conspiracy which they'll use to target everyone from people who believe in the constitution to veterans. 

 

I just don't see the "World is ending, revolution is in the wind" from a bunch of rednecks trying to become media famous out in the middle of nowhere.  I don't see the great conspiracy or some threat to our way of life especially when the left has burned three cities and killed enough cops I can't keep score because they won't tell us. 

 

To me its history repeating its self, worry about these guys that posed no threat to me or mine at all while we take your rights away in their name.  Its an old tune. 

 

TJ




#29 OFFLINE   Pepper

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 01:21 PM

There is no false narrative. These people do want the federal government dissolved. That's what is so strange to me, these people kill cops, judges, and try to pervert the system to their belief system. They're domestic terrorists. That black woman who shot it out with cops in the last few weeks? She was a sovereign citizen. They reject any form of authority, just like the Bundys do. They are dangerous, as most will take up arms against any LE or government representative. What the hell do you think the Bundys were going to do with those guns? They broadcast that while they were peaceful, they would resist any attempts to remove them, with deadly force. Their definition of self-defense includes killing cops that are enforcing the law. 

 

And I don't give two shats whether or not they were using that refuge at the moment or not. A few weeks ago, scotto posted pics of a guy walking through his yard and messing with his stuff. There were calls for booby traps, killing the intruder, all sorts of things. But when a bunch of idiots take over a piece of public property, steal government owned vehicles, vandalize the land, and the buildings, destroy supplies and equipment used by the refuge and paid for by our tax dollars, it's some kind of freaking noble protest? 

 

The BLM (Bureau of Land Management) is not without fault. They should have their practices reviewed and changed. There should be some light thrown upon what they do. However, everything the Bundy family has done, has taken away from regular people seeing what the BLM does. It then becomes about the sovereign citizens taking over property and goods that don't belong to them. If someone were to break into the Social Security office, I would arrest them for burglary. You'd give these idiots a pass because they say they're demonstrating? They were living out a masturbatory fantasy where they were so important that they were telling the feds what to do. Now that it's over, they need to accept responsibility for their actions. 




#30 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 01:29 PM

I have been to this town, Burns.  It is a small, rural, ag-ranching-type of place with one motel, couple gas stations, maybe a hardware store, maybe a feed store, couple restaurants---you get the picture.  These people are not the Bundy audience.  I can't understand why they went there.  Probably nobody there understands either.


Edited by SturmGewehr, Aug. 24 2016 - 01:29 PM.



#31 ONLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 01:55 PM

I have been to this town, Burns.  It is a small, rural, ag-ranching-type of place with one motel, couple gas stations, maybe a hardware store, maybe a feed store, couple restaurants---you get the picture.  These people are not the Bundy audience.  I can't understand why they went there.  Probably nobody there understands either.

 

 

They have a Big R, and as we in the Armory know, Big R is a fine establishment, with the best in firearm inventory management.  :segrin:

 

I lived in burns for several years, and a large portion of my family still lives there.  One of them was an employee of the Malheur refuge up until about 2 weeks ago, when he used the threats he and his family received during this fiasco to land an even better job elsewhere.  Still has to live in Burns unfortunately though.  

 

Most of the locals are completely opposed to anything the morons tried to do out there.  The recall election for Grasty didn't work out in the Bundy supporters favor, he won with over 75% of the vote.




#32 ONLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 01:59 PM

There is no false narrative. These people do want the federal government dissolved. That's what is so strange to me, these people kill cops, judges, and try to pervert the system to their belief system. They're domestic terrorists. That black woman who shot it out with cops in the last few weeks? She was a sovereign citizen. They reject any form of authority, just like the Bundys do. They are dangerous, as most will take up arms against any LE or government representative. What the hell do you think the Bundys were going to do with those guns? They broadcast that while they were peaceful, they would resist any attempts to remove them, with deadly force. Their definition of self-defense includes killing cops that are enforcing the law. 

 

And I don't give two shats whether or not they were using that refuge at the moment or not. A few weeks ago, scotto posted pics of a guy walking through his yard and messing with his stuff. There were calls for booby traps, killing the intruder, all sorts of things. But when a bunch of idiots take over a piece of public property, steal government owned vehicles, vandalize the land, and the buildings, destroy supplies and equipment used by the refuge and paid for by our tax dollars, it's some kind of freaking noble protest? 

 

The BLM (Bureau of Land Management) is not without fault. They should have their practices reviewed and changed. There should be some light thrown upon what they do. However, everything the Bundy family has done, has taken away from regular people seeing what the BLM does. It then becomes about the sovereign citizens taking over property and goods that don't belong to them. If someone were to break into the Social Security office, I would arrest them for burglary. You'd give these idiots a pass because they say they're demonstrating? They were living out a masturbatory fantasy where they were so important that they were telling the feds what to do. Now that it's over, they need to accept responsibility for their actions. 

 

 

The funny thing is, they kept saying the refuge was abandoned when they went out there that saturday and took it over.  The reason it was abandoned?  It was closed for the weekend.

 

My uncle was the firefighter manager out there until a couple of weeks ago, and when he heard that it was abandoned in the winter, he said he wished he would have been told, so he wouldn't have gone in to work for the previous 8 years during the winter.

 

In a perfect world, after Cliven goes down in the Bunkerville trial, they will kill off all of his cows and host a fish and wildlife employee appreciation BBQ, and then seize his land for what he owes and turn it into another refuge.




#33 OFFLINE   Pepper

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 02:00 PM

I have been to this town, Burns.  It is a small, rural, ag-ranching-type of place with one motel, couple gas stations, maybe a hardware store, maybe a feed store, couple restaurants---you get the picture.  These people are not the Bundy audience.  I can't understand why they went there.  Probably nobody there understands either.

It was a target of opportunity. I've spent considerable time in Burns. It's a nice, quiet town, with very conservative leanings. The Hammond family was done wrong in a federal trial/sentencing. I think they got a raw deal, but understand why they got it. They were found guilty of a federal crime, and were given a plea deal. They served this sentence, and were released. The federal prosecutors appealed this, because the plea deal didn't fit the law, the sentencing guidelines. The appeal was successful, and they needed to go back to prison. While that was a shatty deal, they did commit the crime, and the Bundys went there to protest, but went over the top and committed felonies. Even if they had left when they were first told, it would have probably been no big deal. 




#34 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 04:38 PM

Probably. You're equating what the Bundys did with protesting, which it's not. And yes, if people protesting happen to be carrying a gun, and the gun is involved in a crime they commit while protesting, they should have sentences enhanced. Further. I don't think it's a good idea to protest with a gun, because if someone else does something stupid, they will lump you right in with it. 

 

One more try.

I stated right off the bat I was not equating the two situations. 

I was trying to move us off being fixated on Bundy and address some of the potential problems the Pro 2A movement may have 

if we have to engage in civil disobedience to preserve our rights, yet maintain the right to defend ourselves.

 

Reading about Bundy gave me the idea that the 2A movement may run into some problems if Clinton is elected to due her stated interest in the Australia model of gun control. 

The Bundy situation gave me insight into where the movement may be heading, and wanted to discuss the potential problems.

I was trying to expand the conversation.

 

I understand that Bundy and crew broke the law. Civil disobedience can at times involve breaking the law. 

All I got in return was the parroting that the Bundy was a different animal, instead of following where I was trying to go.  I wanted to discuss the future of the 2A 

movement if we are forced to engage in civil disobedience, while maintaining the right to defend ourselves. The Bundy story simply provided the genesis of an idea I wanted to discuss about 2A demonstrations, civil disobedience, and the possession of firearms.  


Edited by Retcop, Aug. 24 2016 - 04:41 PM.



#35 OFFLINE   Pepper

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Posted Aug. 24 2016 - 04:41 PM

I think that if gun owners have to resort to civil disobedience, the situation will be most un-civil, and the revolution has started. The only exceptions to that were some marches on state houses of people bearing unloaded firearms, ready to be arrested to be the test case, not looking for a shootout with the cops. That's the difference, the intent. 




#36 ONLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Aug. 26 2016 - 11:55 AM

http://vegasseven.co...il-awful-place/

 

:lol:




#37 ONLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Sep. 06 2016 - 11:18 AM

Jury selection begins today!  I wonder how many of the nutjob bundy supporters are going to get shut down hard by the US Marshals, for trying to talk to potential jurors?




#38 OFFLINE   Pepper

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Posted Sep. 06 2016 - 11:41 AM

Jury selection begins today!  I wonder how many of the nutjob bundy supporters are going to get shut down hard by the US Marshals, for trying to talk to potential jurors?

Probably quite a few. They're not all there. And I guarantee that the first attempt at a trial will end in a mistrial, because they'll start running their sucks in open court about "jury nullification". 




#39 ONLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Sep. 06 2016 - 11:45 AM

http://vegasseven.co...il-awful-place/
 
:lol:


Mega derp


#40 ONLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Sep. 06 2016 - 04:22 PM

Poor Ryan is butthurt that the judge won't let him get rid of his standby counsel - http://www.oregonliv..._oregon_st.html



Shawna cox is up to more of her insane bullshat - http://www.seditioni...ndy_or_1196.pdf

http://www.seditioni...ndy_or_1191.pdf





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