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Mosin Nagant Bipod Question


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#1 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Nov. 17 2016 - 01:28 PM

My grandson has a type 53, M 44, Chinese made Mosin Nagant.  I am getting him some things for Christmas and a bipod is on the list.  This site has a couple examples:

 

http://www.tickbitesupply.com/mos.html

 

Scrowling down, the first bipod for about $35.00 has a bunch of springs and wires.  I have no idea what these are but they are ugly.  So, my choice is the second bipod down which has none of these things for about $30.00.  The price difference between the two is not the issue.  What does the first bipod have that the second one does not?  Recommendations?




#2 ONLINE   Forsaken352

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Posted Nov. 17 2016 - 03:18 PM

Main difference is the $35.00 UTG model uses the springs as a retention fit for the legs, open or closed. Unlike the $30.00 model, the springs allow you to just pull the bipod legs down, and they snap into the open position, or vice versa. The other model, as it says, uses a "thumb lock" to open or close.

 

I have to wonder, however, does your grandson have a rail section or a swivel stud on the underside of his rifle? If it is in the original wooden stock, I'm kind of doubting it, and he won't have a way of attaching either model bipod. If this is the case, you may want to consider a shooting bag instead. One thing to keep in mind, though, shooting from the bench or the prone position will increase felt recoil over standing, but it won't be unbearable if he's got that aforementioned recoil pad. If he is merely slinging surplus ammunition downrange at random targets, I'd suggest wrapping into the sling, and using the sitting (cross legged) or standing position. If he is trying to shoot any tight groupings, then the shooting bag can certainly get him there.




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#3 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Nov. 17 2016 - 09:29 PM

I don't think he has a rail but the advertisement says it will fit either, right?

 

The first one with the springs is the one I would not pick.  What difference does it make if you slide the legs down or just lock them down with the screw?  There are only two legs  I like simple things.  Are those spring legs a big deal when you are shooting?  Yes, I am getting him a butt pad too.




#4 ONLINE   Forsaken352

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Posted Nov. 18 2016 - 01:35 AM

The UTG model says in the description, "Bipod mounts to rails directly, or to a sling swivel stud with the included connector.", and the other (unnamed $30.00 model, but I believe is also UTG by the logo on the side), "...fits on rails or sling swivel studs (adapter included).". Like before, if it's in the original wooden stock, I highly doubt he has either a rail section or a swivel stud. To be honest, I don't really know if one could be added on the front of the original stock. 

 

The deal with the spring bipod is, first off, it's a clone of a Harris bipod, and all of the clones I've come across (Caldwell being another common one), the springs are always weaker than the real thing. Secondly, it's just convenience. Rather than pushing the two "thumb lock" buttons, one needs only to pull each leg to deploy, or push to store, then the tension locks for extending the legs on a non-notched leg model allows for each leg to be independently locked to a certain height, which can help if you're not on a level terrain. The downside, in my experience, though, is the tension locks for the extension tends not to lock up tight enough. Personally, I prefer Harris notched bipods for that reason, but I digress.

 

Any time I've shot my Mosin from the prone, I've found a backpack full of stuff used as a rest can do anything a bipod can (unless you're shooting uphill, height issue), but again, I've got no recoil pad. I wasn't likely to shoot more than 5 rounds before sitting up or standing to manage felt recoil.


Edited by Forsaken352, Nov. 18 2016 - 01:36 AM.



#5 ONLINE   Srgt. Hulka

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Posted Nov. 18 2016 - 11:24 AM

Yep, any of those bipods will require that holes be drilled in the stock and a rail mounted.  I'm not sure the wood at that part of the stock can take the kind of abuse and shock it will recieve for very long before it cracks.  If you get a bipod that clamps to the barrel, then you're messing with the "accuracy" and harmonics of the rifle, not to mention scarring up the barrel.

 

I have a Nagant.  It's just a toy, a rifle to take to the range occasionally and shoot for fun.  (I'm good for about 20 rounds, then I'm tired of being kicked by that mule.)  IMO, I would just leave the rifle the way it is and get a nice bench rest bag to shoot it off of. Something like this.

 

10086306.jpg?is=500,500

 

http://www.academy.c...hildCatid=33502




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#6 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Nov. 18 2016 - 05:31 PM

I called the company and we went over the attachment issue. You guys are right. But they had another model, just in, which resembles the Dragon model at the bottom but has a clamp to attach to a rifle without the rail. I bought it. Thanks for bringing up the rail attachment issue. Thanks, guys, for all your help.


#7 OFFLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Nov. 18 2016 - 05:35 PM

A type 53 does not have enough barrel out front to use the clamp on style. Actually in the original stocks, none of the nagants have enough barrel forward of the wood.

Edited by hzhardy, Nov. 18 2016 - 05:37 PM.



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#8 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Nov. 18 2016 - 08:00 PM

A type 53 does not have enough barrel out front to use the clamp on style. Actually in the original stocks, none of the nagants have enough barrel forward of the wood.


Why are they selling them then?


#9 OFFLINE   SSGN_Doc

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Posted Nov. 19 2016 - 12:12 PM

They sell them for people who like gadgets and attachments, as well as for people who buy surplus guns and cut them down into sportster rifles. I've got a couple high quality bipods. They spend most of their time in a box of little used accessories. As I grew in shooting experience I found more utility in a good sling and good bean bag rests, and knowing how to use them.

The Mosin Nagant and most variants were not designed for the kind of shooting that benefits from bipod use. Predetor and varmint hunting in the field are where I have actually found a bipod somewhat useful. But then they are mounted to rails under a free floated barrel, where the bipod cannot change pressure on the barrel, which throws off accuracy.

A Mosin Nagant works well when employed like a 19th and early 20th century rifle. The Type 53 is a handier version that will withstand rough handling and hit man sized targets regularly. Going for a lot more by attaching stuff to it will be an exercise in spending and frustration.

I would try to encourage the young man to dig into the history and try to experience the use of the rifle as the soldiers who carried it did. Learn field positions, sling use, etc. he can dig into tricks the Finns used to improve the accuracy of their captured 91s. He can experiment with gunsmithing methods that do not change the rifle itself permanently or at least visibly. He can learn to try different ammo from different countries and see how accuracy is effected. In doing this he can learn how to keep a shooting log for his rifle.

I bought a 91/30 with a cracked stock, and worked on doing repairs that were similar to arsenal repairs. I tried metal shim bedding the action like the Finns did. I relieved the barrel channel and handguard to float the barrel invisibly. I then experimented with forward barrel shims. I used calipers to measure the diameter of different bullets from different brands of ammo. I found that .312 sized bullets from the Czech Republic and Russia shot best in that rifle. I also found I could get it to shoot under 2" groups consistently with the old iron sights from a bag rest at 100 yds from a bench or in prone position. (The gun shot 6" groups when I bought it, before I knew the stock was cracked.)

Surplus rifles are great for newer shooters, but I think they are best when they stay stock, or close to stock, so they can be appreciated for what they are. If something is desired that they can't do, then seeking the correct firearm to do the job is the answer, instead of spending a firearms worth of money on accessories.

This is a truth I learned by doing exactly the opposite of what I am recommending. I offer the advice to save others the same expense and frustration.

If a gun kicks too much get a different caliber. If a gun needs to be precise for sub 1" groups, get a modern rifle with sights, bedding, barrel and trigger that are capable.

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#10 OFFLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Nov. 19 2016 - 12:37 PM

Why are they selling them then?

as pointed out by ssgn they ar ment for people who sporterize them.


#11 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Nov. 19 2016 - 12:40 PM

I was looking at some bi-pods in a catalog, and they claimed all you

needed to attached the bi-pod was a sling swivel stud, which would be easy to install,

or relatively inexpensive for a gunsmith to do if you did not want to tackle it yourself. 




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#12 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Nov. 21 2016 - 02:03 PM

I called the company back and changed the order. I cancelled the bipod and got a muzzle break ("Soviet Design") and a sling for the same price. My grandson's basic complaint was the recoil so maybe I had better focus on that. From what you guys say the bipod on the M44 may not be such a good idea and at best it would be used only now and then so better to try to attack the basic recoil problem Some people say slinging in the right way helps limit recoil. This muzzle break is correct for his rifle. The color matches his rifle and it is steel. If it does not work it is on $20.00 and there are plenty of American muzzle breaks for the Mosin Nagant type 53. This will just get him started. So he is getting a butt pad, muzzle break and sling as a starting point on this problem.

Thanks for all your help guys. I am light years ahead of where I was before this thread.


#13 OFFLINE   TomJefferson

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Posted Nov. 21 2016 - 02:16 PM

Good move.

 

Best way on the bipod is buy a cheap wood screw type swivel eye, they're like $6 for two.  Then you can use any swivel mounted bipod that you use on your other guns. 

 

That said, the slings are very popular gifts.  A personal favorite of mine is inexpensive too, the ammo clips.  Pushing those five rounds in like "Enemy at the Gates" changes the entire nature of the gun. 







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