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School me on Archery


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#41 OFFLINE   devil duck

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Posted Dec. 30 2017 - 11:25 AM

When shooting with fingers I always used the index finger touching my canine tooth. That truly is a fixed in place position, whereas the corner of the mouth moves around. 
 
And paper tuning definitely helps with accuracy. Also testing the fletching using aerosol foot spray to make sure there is no fletch contact with the bow. You really have to do that before you do the paper tuning.
 
It is amazing the number of people who won't paper tune use an expandable broadhead and then wonder why they don't get good penetration. If the arrow isn't flying straight it isn't going to penetrate as well as it could. 
 
Seriously, once you have it paper tuned you will be amazed at the penetration you get. I shot a mule deer buck from the rear and hit is right on the arsehole. It went down like it was poleaxed. My buddy who was standing just to my right who didn't have a clear shot was shocked when the whole arrow disappeared. We found the arrow hanging out of the deer's brisket with only the fletching still inside. It was 5 feet of penetration. Most rifles won't do that.

That is why I asked about paper tuning and contact with your arm, especially with broadheads. Many years ago I bought a top of the line Hoyt. I had been using a Browning and absolutely loved it but got caught up in the speed game, big mistake. Anyway I fought that sucker for a couple of weeks, retimed it, changed out a cam bushing, changed rests, arrows, fletching, you name it. Finally I went back to the store and talked to the Pro. He watched me and could not see anything. He shot it and was drilling the 10 ring. I tried it and was still getting inconstant shots. Finally he suggested the powder trick.
Well heck, I use a arm guard and it was "every so lightly" brushing the guard. It was so light I couldn't even feel it but it was there. After 6 months of chasing speed I was getting 375 ft per second, this was in the mid 90s and that was fast, very fast. Unfortunately it was loud, very unstable and sucked for penetration. Those hard cams were not very shooter friendly and that Hoyt was constantly needing timed, mostly because of the style of cables it used.
I went back to my Browning, super smooth, very quite and stable. Then around 2000 I shot a Matthews at a 3d shoot. Holy crap, as smooth and quite as my Browning was that Matthew was incredible. I bought a complete setup in 2001 and have never looked back. I still shoot my Matthews Switchback XT, that was my last upgrade and it is everything I could want in a hunting bow.
I practice alot at 50 yards but never shoot past 40. But by striving to be good at 50, 35 and even 40 seems like a chip shot.


O, you mentioned finger shooting. I tried a glove but they would always develop a Ridge at the tip. I went to a tab and love it, the string just glides off of it. When I shoot my Darton I use fingers, for my Switchback I use a release. I have found this one to be perfect for me. It distributes the weight across your entire hand, not just your fingers.
https://www.outdoors...6RoC36YQAvD_BwE

Edited by devil duck, Dec. 30 2017 - 11:38 AM.



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#42 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Dec. 30 2017 - 01:10 PM

I was shooting inside and in a tshirt. Only had y arm kissed a few times. When I did it was obvious and the arrow went in a little canted. Right now they are impacting straight in when I focus on fI'll owing through my shot. When I dont... yeah not stellar.

Edited by Jaeger48, Dec. 30 2017 - 01:10 PM.



#43 OFFLINE   devil duck

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Posted Dec. 30 2017 - 02:02 PM

I was shooting inside and in a tshirt. Only had y arm kissed a few times. When I did it was obvious and the arrow went in a little canted. Right now they are impacting straight in when I focus on fI'll owing through my shot. When I dont... yeah not stellar.

Back in the early eighties I spent a good bit of time in this little bow shop with a 20 yard range. I had my lamanated wooden Darton and was shooting fingers. No speed but super quite. The boys at the shop was playing around with different bows and swapping out the risers and limbs across different models. For the life of me I don't remember the brand but they built this bow that had around 110# of pull and a 31" draw. A couple of them were able to pull it back so I wanted to try. Lol, I couldn't even get it half way up the lobe of the cams, which was extremely egg shaped. So I had one of the boys help me draw it back.
Now, I am 5'8" and shoot a 28" draw length. This beast had a 31" draw. Those of you who shoot know immediately where this is going. I was having a hard time just keeping it a full draw for the second or two and had my left arm and shoulder extended as far as I could and my left arm was slightly bowed inward. When I loosed the arrow I felt the pain and watched my watch go flying down the lane. Before I could say anything everybody was laughing and hollering Oooo! Of corse everybody wanted to see my arm, hell I was almost afraid to look. I had a 2" by about 7" or 8" long burn that turned all sorts of colors within an hour. It swelled up pretty good and hurt like heck. My watch actually survived, it was a Sakio with a metal band and the arrow ripped it from my arm.
I try not to do silly stuff like that anymore but you know how that goes, every now and again my inner child comes out and I pay for my stupidity.


#44 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Dec. 30 2017 - 02:08 PM

LOL. There was this little guy (looked Indian but small IT Indian)) there with his wife/girlfriend. I heard them asking about my bow and the pro was talking about cams and pins, draw length etc. I was going to let him draw it but the draw probably weighed more than him. I'm 6' and walking around at 215 right now. Active enough that I pull it back with effort bit controlled. I can't imagine him taking a pull on it and not having a bad experience. My dad asked to pull it over Christmas and his wrists just wouldn't let him. He's 70 now, 6'2 (hunched a bit, used to be 6'4) and at least 250.

I have a 55 lb recurve and that thing has flayed me on more than one occasion.

It makes me think of the assholes that think it's funny to take a lady shoting and to put her behind a 12 gauge. It just ruins the experience- it doesn't teach anything other than fear.
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#45 OFFLINE   devil duck

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Posted Dec. 30 2017 - 02:27 PM

LOL. There was this little guy (looked Indian but small IT Indian)) there with his wife/girlfriend. I heard them asking about my bow and the pro was talking about cams and pins, draw length etc. I was going to let him draw it but the draw probably weighed more than him. I'm 6' and walking around at 215 right now. Active enough that I pull it back with effort bit controlled. I can't imagine him taking a pull on it and not having a bad experience. My dad asked to pull it over Christmas and his wrists just wouldn't let him. He's 70 now, 6'2 (hunched a bit, used to be 6'4) and at least 250.
I have a 55 lb recurve and that thing has flayed me on more than one occasion.
It makes me think of the assholes that think it's funny to take a lady shoting and to put her behind a 12 gauge. It just ruins the experience- it doesn't teach anything other than fear.

Yeah, it wouldn't have been good and I agree 100% about the women shooting.
You mentioned his wrist. I know this isn't for him but that glove release I use was bought for that very reason. I had surgery on my right wrist from the years of automotive painting and home building. If I try to use a normal release it hurts like heck and I'm limited on my draw weight. That glove distributes the weight across my hand where a normal release is using just your fingers. For me it made a huge difference in comfort and the amount of draw weight I can pull. Just something to pass along to anyone who doesn't have the finger strength anymore.
https://www.outdoors...zRoCl_MQAvD_BwE


#46 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Dec. 30 2017 - 03:40 PM

Yeah, it wouldn't have been good and I agree 100% about the women shooting.
You mentioned his wrist. I know this isn't for him but that glove release I use was bought for that very reason. I had surgery on my right wrist from the years of automotive painting and home building. If I try to use a normal release it hurts like heck and I'm limited on my draw weight. That glove distributes the weight across my hand where a normal release is using just your fingers. For me it made a huge difference in comfort and the amount of draw weight I can pull. Just something to pass along to anyone who doesn't have the finger strength anymore.
https://www.outdoors...zRoCl_MQAvD_BwE


I'd also turn it down for him to the 60 rabge. Less pI'll would help too.

He has his disabled hunting classification so he can hunt with a crossbow during archery. I'd much rather put him behind one of those.
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#47 OFFLINE   devil duck

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Posted Dec. 30 2017 - 03:49 PM

I'd also turn it down for him to the 60 rabge. Less pI'll would help too.
He has his disabled hunting classification so he can hunt with a crossbow during archery. I'd much rather put him behind one of those.

Thankfully in TN they passed it where you can use a crossbow during archery season without a special permit.
Is he able to cock the crossbow with a double rope? The technology in crossbows has come a long way since I shot one years ago. Lol, it almost made as much noise as a firearm when it went off.


#48 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Dec. 30 2017 - 04:12 PM

Thankfully in TN they passed it where you can use a crossbow during archery season without a special permit.
Is he able to cock the crossbow with a double rope? The technology in crossbows has come a long way since I shot one years ago. Lol, it almost made as much noise as a firearm when it went off.


Oh yeah. He can still buck hay. His back is strong but one wrist has been troubling him for a while, perhaps from golfing a lot, and he took a fall this hunting season on the other. He got out of his truck after sliding down a slick part and found a big ice sheet. He hit the ground on his side, wrist, and smacked his head too. Wrist is getting better and his ribs are good. Scares me a bit as he's getting up in years and in the mountains on his own. Both kneed and a hip replaced- it's more that can go wrong.


#49 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Jan. 01 2018 - 10:11 PM

So question on now to broadhead weight and selection.

I'm using Cabelas carbon something arrows for target practice with a 125 field point. Im looking at Easton FMJ's and a Montec G5 fixed 125 broadhead. Should be more than enough for deer but really thinking of elk.


#50 ONLINE   redbarron06

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Posted Jan. 01 2018 - 10:18 PM

So question on now to broadhead weight and selection.
I'm using Cabelas carbon something arrows for target practice with a 125 field point. Im looking at Easton FMJ's and a Montec G5 fixed 125 broadhead. Should be more than enough for deer but really thinking of elk.


100s will do fine for anything in on this continent. First thing I would do is make sure you are using the correct weight for your spine arrow and set up. Everything thing matters. Adding something like a arrow wrap or longer fletches can jack the spine up if you are on the border.

https://www.3riversa...rs-archery.html

If you really want to be picky about it you can start looking at FOC or “Forward of Center”.


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#51 OFFLINE   devil duck

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Posted Jan. 01 2018 - 10:34 PM

So question on now to broadhead weight and selection.
I'm using Cabelas carbon something arrows for target practice with a 125 field point. Im looking at Easton FMJ's and a Montec G5 fixed 125 broadhead. Should be more than enough for deer but really thinking of elk.

Lol, might as well be asking whats the best round and rifle /pistol made.

This link gives you the latest arrows (2017) Now I still use Easton ACC arrows. I bought them when I Bought my Matthews and loved them. Now an all carbon arrow has come a long way if the last few years.
http://www.bowhuntin...est-new-arrows/

This link gives you a great look into speed vs energy, well worth the read. After the speed chase I got into I now lean more to the heavy side. You are not going to out shoot a deer if he hears the shot, regardless of speed. I want more penetration and go for the quite side of speed. It's all about finding that happy medium.
http://www.huntersfr...arch-guide.html

For broadheads it's either fixed or expanding. Fixed takes more tuning to get them to fly correctly.
Expanding can get tricky, I use Rage and have never had one fail. I have takin probably 15 plus deer with them. Fixed I still use NAP Thunderhead 125. Been using them for 35 plus years. Those Rage will open up a wound channel like no body's business and still do good going into the ribs. But I just like the idea of knowing my broad doesn't have to do anything but cut. No tricks, no worries, just a solid extremely well build broadhead that never fails. Plus you can buy practice blades for tuning.


#52 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Jan. 06 2018 - 06:43 PM

Went to the range today. I was very consistent at about 4" left almost the whole session. I shot for about 1.5 hours which was in the 50 shot range.  I'll admit- I worked out this morning and was focusing on holding my aim more on these shots- holding back 70ish pounds is a fair amount of work.




#53 OFFLINE   devil duck

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Posted Jan. 06 2018 - 10:02 PM

Went to the range today. I was very consistent at about 4" left almost the whole session. I shot for about 1.5 hours which was in the 50 shot range.  I'll admit- I worked out this morning and was focusing on holding my aim more on these shots- holding back 70ish pounds is a fair amount of work.

After your next session if you are still 4" left then I would shift my pins to the left. You might be getting a consistent hold, aim and release now. If so then a sight shift is in order.
Sounds like everything is coming together, nice job. Lol, yep 70# for 1.5 hours is definitely a workout.


#54 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Jan. 06 2018 - 10:44 PM

After your next session if you are still 4" left then I would shift my pins to the left. You might be getting a consistent hold, aim and release now. If so then a sight shift is in order.
Sounds like everything is coming together, nice job. Lol, yep 70# for 1.5 hours is definitely a workout.

I had 2 colossal flubs. The range has 4 foot by 4 foot foam cubes for targets. They're held in place by 2x6s. I didn't get a good release and rushed the shot- sent an arrow right onto that 2x. That booger did not want to come out. I did the same thing near the end but it was about 1/2" from the edge of the board and spit it so it came out easy. I need to work on my release trigger squeeze just like a trigger pull.

Edited by Jaeger48, Jan. 06 2018 - 10:47 PM.



#55 OFFLINE   devil duck

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Posted Jan. 06 2018 - 11:06 PM

I had 2 colossal flubs. The range has 4 foot by 4 foot foam cubes for targets. They're held in place by 2x6s. I didn't get a good release and rushed the shot- sent an arrow right onto that 2x. That booger did not want to come out. I did the same thing near the end but it was about 1/2" from the edge of the board and spit it so it came out easy. I need to work on my release trigger squeeze just like a trigger pull.

Lol, I have a few of those "O Crap" shots. At my old house I bought a 10×20 metal building with a single garage door on one end for my yard equipment. I had my target set up in front of my new sheds door. I consider my self a pretty decent shot and didnt worry about a back stop before the door. Three or four shots in at 40 yards I punched a perfect triangle with a Thunderhead through my new garage door. Well crap, nothing I can do about it now, except punch another hole 3" away from the the first one.
Just incase you were wondering, one punched through a metal gas can that thankfully was almost empty and the other took out the rear tire on my Cub Cadet mower.


#56 ONLINE   calebj06

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Posted Jan. 10 2018 - 06:57 PM

Lol, I have a few of those "O Crap" shots. At my old house I bought a 10×20 metal building with a single garage door on one end for my yard equipment. I had my target set up in front of my new sheds door. I consider my self a pretty decent shot and didnt worry about a back stop before the door. Three or four shots in at 40 yards I punched a perfect triangle with a Thunderhead through my new garage door. Well crap, nothing I can do about it now, except punch another hole 3" away from the the first one.
Just incase you were wondering, one punched through a metal gas can that thankfully was almost empty and the other took out the rear tire on my Cub Cadet mower.


Thats a pretty big oops. Lol





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