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What bullet for large predators.........4 legged and 2 legged


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#1 OFFLINE   Chris645

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Posted Dec. 06 2017 - 10:33 PM

Okay.  As much fun as I'm hoping I'm going to be having with my new AR, the real reason for buying it was for predator control.  I'll be loading 55gr FMJ for practice and plinking.  But I'm thinking I need something heavier and maybe with a soft point or hollowpoint for the protection side of the equation.  I live in the country.  Not worried about "going through walls" and all that stuff because my home protection is provided by the Browning P35 (Hi-Power) I carry 24/7 and the "shorty" shotgun inside the house.  I'm talking outside the house.  Coyotes and other 4-legged and 2-legged critters if/when the time comes for that.  My barrel is a 1:8 twist.  That'll take me up to what, about a 77gr bullet?  Any suggestions or thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.




#2 OFFLINE   redbarron06

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Posted Dec. 06 2017 - 10:36 PM

If you are talking yotes, 223/556 is a very good round and you can go as heavy as 77 or as light as 45 for them. For folks, I would suggest something that expands either in a hollow point or polymer tip will do the trick well. Now if you are worried about larger issues like bears, I would some for something in a caliber that starts with at least 3, 4 or 5 would be preferred.


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#3 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Dec. 06 2017 - 10:43 PM

Yeah, bears I don't want a 223. Coyotes- 223 is fine. I'd go with some 75 grain gold dot or something like an expanding Federal fusion.


#4 OFFLINE   Chris645

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 09:19 AM

I've got a .45-70 I load with 550gr gas-checked bullets for bear.  Don't really know why............because I'm not ever going to have the opportunity to shoot one.  But I love that rifle.

 

Okay, 45 to 77 gr for yotes.  My plan is to keep 10 30-round mags loaded with heavier "defense" loads and then plink with 55 gr FMJ.  Does that make sense?




#5 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 10:23 AM

That's a good choice to run. Hornady TAP ammunition might be just the ticket for you in the 75's. It does give good down range performance on warm targets, or so I hear.

 

I'd probably run something like a Speer  Gold Dot but I'm a bit of a maverick. My loaded rifle when I lived out in the boonies south of Norman was a stoked up M1A running 150 grain SP's.  Of course I had the ubiquitous 45 ACP handguns and a chopped of Browning Citori close at hand too.

 

Greg


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#6 OFFLINE   Chris645

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 10:32 AM

Wouldn't penetration be too deep with the TAP ammo if one had to use it on a 2-legged predator?  If memory serves me, it's something like 15" or so.  I think that would be great for many 4-legged critters.




#7 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 10:39 AM

Wouldn't penetration be too deep with the TAP ammo if one had to use it on a 2-legged predator?  If memory serves me, it's something like 15" or so.  I think that would be great for many 4-legged critters.

 

It is designed for two leggers.  

 

A bit of info.

 

http://www.hornadyle...og/view-catalog

 

Greg




#8 OFFLINE   Chris645

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 10:48 AM

Thanks.  I'd say that's a bit more than a bit of info! Sounds like a pretty phenomenal round for my purpose.  A bit on the expensive side, but to keep 300 loaded wouldn't be the end of the world..............or bank account.

 

Side note:

 

Just checked on it and the TAP isn't sold to individuals not members of law enforcement, or am I missing something?.


Edited by Chris645, Dec. 07 2017 - 10:52 AM.

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#9 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 12:21 PM

Thanks.  I'd say that's a bit more than a bit of info! Sounds like a pretty phenomenal round for my purpose.  A bit on the expensive side, but to keep 300 loaded wouldn't be the end of the world..............or bank account.

 

Side note:

 

Just checked on it and the TAP isn't sold to individuals not members of law enforcement, or am I missing something?.

 

I've seen it on the counters.

 

Look here:

 

http://palmettostate...r-223-20rd.html

 

The FBI boys started using it when we were playing together. That doesn't mean it's the greatest thing since sliced bread but the HRT guys I worked with didn't carry low bidder stuff for ammo.  Heck I even caught a Secret Service guy one day shooting handloads in his 300 Win Mag at the range.  He turned red o that one until I gave him an atta boy. I wish I could have loaded for my snipers but the FGMM did fine with their rigs for our needs..LOL

 

Greg


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#10 OFFLINE   TomJefferson

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 12:48 PM

Nossler 55 grain ballistic tip.  Excellent ballistic coefficient, you don't give up velocity for weight, and expansion is all but guaranteed. 


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#11 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 02:03 PM

Nossler 55 grain ballistic tip.  Excellent ballistic coefficient, you don't give up velocity for weight, and expansion is all but guaranteed. 

 

You do give up some barrier penetration on a set to engagement.

 

Greg




#12 OFFLINE   Joel74

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 02:05 PM

Wouldn't penetration be too deep with the TAP ammo if one had to use it on a 2-legged predator?  If memory serves me, it's something like 15" or so.  I think that would be great for many 4-legged critters.

Penetration in gell isn't penetration in flesh and bone. Just a standard develped by the FBI to use as a basis of chosing ammo.




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#13 OFFLINE   TomJefferson

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 02:18 PM

 

You do give up some barrier penetration on a set to engagement.

 

Greg

Not a bit if you alternate round types in your mag. 

 

I even do that with handguns.  If two hollow points doesn't get through, the next two will be FMJs.  The advantage of semis isn't just that they hold more rounds but we aren't held to having to have a cannon.  Otherwise like military weapons before semi's, the calibers would all be monster calibers like the 30-06 and 8mm Mauser. 

 

Another thing with sonic rounds is you change the dynamic of what the bullet impact is.  Besides the bleed path the tissue around a sonic round will have a hemolysis where the shock wave ruptures the tissue around it.  Did an autopsy once on a soldier that shot himself in the head with a 55 grain 5.56mm FMJ.  I was quite impressed.  Though that close the bullet went through pretty much with no obstruction in path, there wasn't much of that brain left you would consider anywhere near normal.  The shock area was multiple times larger than the cavity.  Subsonic larger rounds, you get the same effect but nowhere near as large despite the sonic round being much smaller. 

 

I'm pretty sold on the ballistic tips.  On reactive targets, the leave a very big hole and hard to beat on varmits.  Better yet, he can switch between 55 FMJ and 55 Ballistic tip and his zero isn't totally different.  I find the zero shift from 55 to 62 grain troubling let alone 55 to 77 grain. 

 

Before anyone goes off on the don't alternate bullets thing, that's exactly what we did in the mlitary with tracers and yep, same bullet weight so you knew the other rounds were pretty much going where the tracer went. 

 

Tj




#14 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 02:43 PM

No argument there but the recommendation above didn't mention stacking. ..lol. Just like buck and slugs we can defeat lots of stuff with pre-planning. After shooting PD's with that Nosler I guarantee it will make a soup sandwich of internal organs.


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#15 OFFLINE   newbe

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 03:27 PM

Okay.  As much fun as I'm hoping I'm going to be having with my new AR, the real reason for buying it was for predator control.  I'll be loading 55gr FMJ for practice and plinking.  But I'm thinking I need something heavier and maybe with a soft point or hollowpoint for the protection side of the equation.  I live in the country.  Not worried about "going through walls" and all that stuff because my home protection is provided by the Browning P35 (Hi-Power) I carry 24/7 and the "shorty" shotgun inside the house.  I'm talking outside the house.  Coyotes and other 4-legged and 2-legged critters if/when the time comes for that.  My barrel is a 1:8 twist.  That'll take me up to what, about a 77gr bullet?  Any suggestions or thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.

Lots of 55 GR soft points out there for not too much money.


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#16 OFFLINE   Chris645

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Posted Dec. 07 2017 - 03:58 PM

Whew!  I sure am glad I found this site and you bunch of guys.  I'm learning a whole lot in a very short time about something I knew absolutely nothing about.  Much thanks.


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#17 OFFLINE   BushXM15

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Posted Dec. 08 2017 - 06:04 PM

On Yotes  anything over 55 grain is OVERKILL  and totally unnecessary IMO  !.   I use 52 grain Sierra HPBT  Kills them DEAD and doesn't mess the hides up good for 0-320 yd. . Larger vermin  # 2 or 4 legged  depending on yardage  .55 - 77 grain   I prefer .69 grain  as they slam hard and have enough mass /velocity too do the job  within a given range .

 

Larger critters require LARGER CALIBER  !.  I  personally don't hunt  predators larger than Coyotes with .223  or anything else for that matter with the 5.56 !!!... 




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#18 OFFLINE   Chris645

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Posted Dec. 09 2017 - 05:42 PM

Well, "overkill" or not, I ordered 5 boxes of Federal P223Q Vital-Shok Nosler Partition 20RD 60gr 223.  A friend of mine who is a retired LEO say it's what he keeps in his magazines for two and four legged critters.  Figure if it's good for him, it's good for me.  I'll buy'em 100 at a time when finances permit.


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#19 OFFLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Dec. 09 2017 - 05:43 PM

Well, "overkill" or not, I ordered 5 boxes of Federal P223Q Vital-Shok Nosler Partition 20RD 60gr 223.  A friend of mine who is a retired LEO say it's what he keeps in his magazines for two and four legged critters.  Figure if it's good for him, it's good for me.  I'll buy'em 100 at a time when finances permit.

 

There ya go. That'll do.




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