Jump to content


AR15Armory Announcements


Photo

Harley-Davidson Laying Off Hundreds of American Workers, Sending Jobs to Thailand


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#21 ONLINE   Joel74

Joel74

    You got one shot left in that shooter. Make the most of it.


  • Group:Gold Patron
  • Posts: 14,472
  • Joined: Mar. 12 2013
  • Location:Portland,Tx


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 05:24 PM

https://mobile.nytim...eu-tariffs.html

More production being moved because of tariffs.

Yep. Tariffs are announce and 15 seconds later HD makes a major move. I'm buying it.




Signature:

I will not comply.
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."- Thomas Jefferson
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.

 

7aKLqtJ.jpg


#22 ONLINE   Gmountain

Gmountain

  • Group:Senior Staff
  • Posts: 60,172
  • Joined: Nov. 20 2005
  • Location:Heliosphere


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 05:34 PM

Yep. Tariffs are announce and 15 seconds later HD makes a major move. I'm buying it.

They said European tariffs will cost them $2200 per bike and amount to $90 million a year. Europe is their second biggest market. They said they will be up and running there in 9 months.




Signature:

Wag more. Bark less.

 

So many guns, so little time.

 


#23 OFFLINE   adair_usmc

adair_usmc

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 5,854
  • Joined: Oct. 27 2009
  • Location:La Grande, Oregon


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 05:39 PM

Yep. Tariffs are announce and 15 seconds later HD makes a major move. I'm buying it.


Thats the smart move on their part, good for them. This is in addition to their already planned production moves too.


#24 ONLINE   Joel74

Joel74

    You got one shot left in that shooter. Make the most of it.


  • Group:Gold Patron
  • Posts: 14,472
  • Joined: Mar. 12 2013
  • Location:Portland,Tx


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 05:40 PM

They said European tariffs will cost them $2200 per bike and amount to $90 million a year. Europe is their second biggest market. They said they will be up and running there in 9 months.

I read the article. EU Tariffs as a result of Trumps tariffs. You can't be up and running in 9 months without this already being in the works. Only my opinion. It's the only one I have. Let's see you have to have a location. Build or lease a building. Buy/Move equipment. Hire workers. Etc. 

 

Harley-Davidson, the American motorcycle manufacturer, said on Monday that it would shift some production of its iconic bikes overseas to avoid retaliatory tariffs imposed by the European Union in response to President Trump’s trade moves.




#25 ONLINE   MontanaLon

MontanaLon

    Flew with the Thunderbirds!


  • Group:Bronze Patron
  • Posts: 22,939
  • Joined: Mar. 02 2009
  • Location:central, hellinois


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 06:19 PM

They said European tariffs will cost them $2200 per bike and amount to $90 million a year. Europe is their second biggest market. They said they will be up and running there in 9 months.

Actually, tariffs would cost them nothing. Their bikes would cost more in Europe and that would affect sales of course. Reality is moving their manufacturing out of the USA is going to cost them more in the long run. Their largest marketing tool is that they are "American made", they didn't have competition for a long time from another American company. In the last 10-15 years there have been many smaller companies making bikes in the US that have taken a big chunk of their market share. Why? Because they are made better, cheaper or both. I mean, a 14 year old can build a bike that leaks oil and is loud, it just isn't that hard.

 

They may think moving production out of the country will "save their company" but the truth is, this is their death knell. Not even Europeans are going to want a motorcycle with made in Brazil stamped onto it at an inflated price. 

 

I mean, look at it this way, how many Remington guns have you bought that were made overseas? Now imagine they had stopped making guns in the US and tried to make a go of it making them elsewhere only. They would be dead now and some may argue already that they are dead because they won't be buying another gun from them.




Signature:

I WILL NOT COMPLY!

This post approved by the NSA!

 

I mean if you are going to go potato go full potato.

We are never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy......
Sight picture and trigger control, the 2 most important things I am teaching my son.
Criminals, if they retreat in the face of lethal force kill them for not even having the work ethic to do their chosen profession well.
So we are expected to believe that the same scientists that are 50% wrong on the weather of the Earth tomorrow are somehow able to predict a storm on a star 93 million miles away in 2 years.
Get real.

"Gitmo, you didn't close that!"


#26 OFFLINE   gmor

gmor

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 30,588
  • Joined: Dec. 30 2009
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 06:51 PM

https://mobile.nytim...eu-tariffs.html

More production being moved because of tariffs.

More unintended consequences of an poorly thought out policy. I hope it is changed before more harm is done to the stock holders and employees.


#27 OFFLINE   gmor

gmor

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 30,588
  • Joined: Dec. 30 2009
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 06:59 PM

Actually, tariffs would cost them nothing. Their bikes would cost more in Europe and that would affect sales of course. Reality is moving their manufacturing out of the USA is going to cost them more in the long run. Their largest marketing tool is that they are "American made", they didn't have competition for a long time from another American company. In the last 10-15 years there have been many smaller companies making bikes in the US that have taken a big chunk of their market share. Why? Because they are made better, cheaper or both. I mean, a 14 year old can build a bike that leaks oil and is loud, it just isn't that hard.
 
They may think moving production out of the country will "save their company" but the truth is, this is their death knell. Not even Europeans are going to want a motorcycle with made in Brazil stamped onto it at an inflated price. 
 
I mean, look at it this way, how many Remington guns have you bought that were made overseas? Now imagine they had stopped making guns in the US and tried to make a go of it making them elsewhere only. They would be dead now and some may argue already that they are dead because they won't be buying another gun from them.

New H-D motorcycles are not loud, do not leak oil and are of the highest quality. I agree with you that the American made tradition is a large part of thier image and appeal, but some parts have been outsourced from overseas for many years.


#28 ONLINE   MontanaLon

MontanaLon

    Flew with the Thunderbirds!


  • Group:Bronze Patron
  • Posts: 22,939
  • Joined: Mar. 02 2009
  • Location:central, hellinois


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 07:38 PM

New H-D motorcycles are not loud, do not leak oil and are of the highest quality. I agree with you that the American made tradition is a large part of thier image and appeal, but some parts have been outsourced from overseas for many years.

Motor-Harley-Davidson-Cycles-2.jpg




#29 OFFLINE   gmor

gmor

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 30,588
  • Joined: Dec. 30 2009
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 08:30 PM


New H-D motorcycles are not loud, do not leak oil and are of the highest quality. I agree with you that the American made tradition is a large part of thier image and appeal, but some parts have been outsourced from overseas for many years.

Motor-Harley-Davidson-Cycles-2.jpg
The main thing about Harley buyers is that they want a real Harley. In other words they want a traditional Harley Davidson model such as a Sportster or a Road King etc. If the overseas produced models meet the same specs as the US built ones they will be accepted as genuine and will be purchased. The problem H-D will have is in selling the new designs such as the Street 750 and 500 models. The Harley Rider is a very tradionaly oriented person and these new designs will be regarded as simply a Harley-Davidson branded "honda" by American motorcyclists. Most likely they will be regarded by foreign riders in the same light. Harley-Davidson is like an actor that has been typecast in a certain role and is incapable of breaking out of the mold.

Edited by gmor, Jun. 25 2018 - 08:37 PM.



#30 ONLINE   MontanaLon

MontanaLon

    Flew with the Thunderbirds!


  • Group:Bronze Patron
  • Posts: 22,939
  • Joined: Mar. 02 2009
  • Location:central, hellinois


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 09:44 PM

The main thing about Harley buyers is that they want a real Harley. In other words they want a traditional Harley Davidson model such as a Sportster or a Road King etc. If the overseas produced models meet the same specs as the US built ones they will be accepted as genuine and will be purchased. The problem H-D will have is in selling the new designs such as the Street 750 and 500 models. The Harley Rider is a very tradionaly oriented person and these new designs will be regarded as simply a Harley-Davidson branded "honda" by American motorcyclists. Most likely they will be regarded by foreign riders in the same light. Harley-Davidson is like an actor that has been typecast in a certain role and is incapable of breaking out of the mold.

Um, no, the typical Harley rider won't accept a rice burner rebranded with a Harley logo even if they go so far as to duplicate the loud exhaust and oil leaks. Neither will the European Harley crowd. 

 

American Iron is going to have to change their format to include only "real" Harley's. You should check out some of the comments on biker forums. Their market share is shrinking faster than the democrat party.

 

Their stock dropped 6%, weren't you just saying something about the market?




#31 OFFLINE   gmor

gmor

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 30,588
  • Joined: Dec. 30 2009
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 10:16 PM

Um, no, the typical Harley rider won't accept a rice burner rebranded with a Harley logo even if they go so far as to duplicate the loud exhaust and oil leaks. Neither will the European Harley crowd. 
 
American Iron is going to have to change their format to include only "real" Harley's. You should check out some of the comments on biker forums. Their market share is shrinking faster than the democrat party.
 
Their stock dropped 6%, weren't you just saying something about the market?

Bring H-D oil leaks into the conversation tells me how out of touch you are with the motorcycle market. Are you a rider? Or a motorcycle owner?


#32 ONLINE   MontanaLon

MontanaLon

    Flew with the Thunderbirds!


  • Group:Bronze Patron
  • Posts: 22,939
  • Joined: Mar. 02 2009
  • Location:central, hellinois


Posted Jun. 25 2018 - 11:04 PM

Bring H-D oil leaks into the conversation tells me how out of touch you are with the motorcycle market. Are you a rider? Or a motorcycle owner?

Now, whenever I picture you, it will be Sheldon Cooper in spandex, you really need to get some social skills, sarcasm goes right over your head. Everyone knows Harley's are loud, and ask a rider if his Harley leaks oil and chances are he will tell you if it doesn't leak oil it isn't really a Harley, it is one of those "new foreign bikes". And as much as they beotch about it, you would think they'd be happy to get rid of the pie plate under the bike. Nope, if the bike they have doesn't leak, they long for the "good old days" and keep the pie plate handy, just in case. 




#33 OFFLINE   gmor

gmor

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 30,588
  • Joined: Dec. 30 2009
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH


Posted Jun. 26 2018 - 06:52 AM

Now, whenever I picture you, it will be Sheldon Cooper in spandex, you really need to get some social skills, sarcasm goes right over your head. Everyone knows Harley's are loud, and ask a rider if his Harley leaks oil and chances are he will tell you if it doesn't leak oil it isn't really a Harley, it is one of those "new foreign bikes". And as much as they beotch about it, you would think they'd be happy to get rid of the pie plate under the bike. Nope, if the bike they have doesn't leak, they long for the "good old days" and keep the pie plate handy, just in case. 

I always appreciate your insights into the firearms industry. This thread however shows how out of touch you are with the motorcycle industry.


#34 ONLINE   MontanaLon

MontanaLon

    Flew with the Thunderbirds!


  • Group:Bronze Patron
  • Posts: 22,939
  • Joined: Mar. 02 2009
  • Location:central, hellinois


Posted Jun. 26 2018 - 09:23 AM

Go ride your 10 speed.


#35 OFFLINE   gmor

gmor

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 30,588
  • Joined: Dec. 30 2009
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH


Posted Jun. 26 2018 - 11:27 AM

  In my opinion Harley-Davidsons problems are greater than the location of production facilities, and it all starts with brand identity. As I previously stated they are like an actor who is deeply typecast and simply cannot break out of the mold.  In the last 60 years they have certainly tried to, but with tepid response from the consumers. A brief history:

      Small Motorcycles, Aermacchi (1960-1978) H-D entered the small motorcycle market by buying a 50% share in Italian manufacturer Aermacchi in 1960. Notable models were the Shortster, LOL!  (minibike), Rapido 125 (dual purpose), Baja 100 (dirt bike) and the Sprint 250/350 (in both street and dual purpose configurations). The Sprints were the only four stroke models and also the most successful. Back in the day all models were heavily advertised in the various motorcycle magazines but they always seemed to be a few steps behind their Japanese competition. H-D sold the factory in 1978 due to slumping sales.

      Sport bike/Café Racer: Buell (1993-2009) H-D bought into former racer Eric Buells Sportster conversion company in 1993 and eventually assumed sole ownership. This line of Sportster engine sport bikes had moderate sales success but always had a "kit bike" essence to their fit and finish.  I thought that their lightened flywheel and tuning gave them an American Ducati persona. They also offered a 500cc entry model called the Buell Blast which I thought was a lame riding machine. Sales slumped and production ceased in 2009. 

       High Performance Cruiser: V-Rod (2001-2017) H-D collaborated with Porshe  in the development of the engine which was a work of art! This line of cuisers was made to compete with bikes like the Yamaha V Max and was planned to be a big seller in overseas markets. I always thought that the motor would have been better suited in a sport bike configuration, sort of a Buell/V-Rod combo? Anyway, in the end sales fell and production stopped in 2017.

       Mid-Size Motorcycles: Street Series (2014-present) H-D used an engine similar to that found in the V-Rod in these smaller entry level 500 and 750 models. In the US traditional Harley riders typically regard them as an H-D branded "honda", and they don't get much respect! The H-D corporate management hopes that overseas markets will buy into this experiment but I have my doubts. I just don't see these machines (which may be rather good on their own merit)  as being successful in breaking through and expanding Harleys brand.  Time will tell.


Edited by gmor, Jun. 26 2018 - 11:38 AM.



#36 ONLINE   MontanaLon

MontanaLon

    Flew with the Thunderbirds!


  • Group:Bronze Patron
  • Posts: 22,939
  • Joined: Mar. 02 2009
  • Location:central, hellinois


Posted Jun. 26 2018 - 12:17 PM

Bring H-D oil leaks into the conversation tells me how out of touch you are with the motorcycle market. Are you a rider? Or a motorcycle owner?

https://www.revzilla...hy-harleys-leak

 

Apparently the Harley engineers disagree with you. They do leak and it at least used to be on purpose. Now it is a by-product of the oil system used. Do Harley's leak oil? Yes, yes they do.




#37 OFFLINE   gmor

gmor

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 30,588
  • Joined: Dec. 30 2009
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH


Posted Jun. 26 2018 - 12:31 PM

https://www.revzilla...hy-harleys-leak

 

Apparently the Harley engineers disagree with you. They do leak and it at least used to be on purpose. Now it is a by-product of the oil system used. Do Harley's leak oil? Yes, yes they do.

I disagree, mine never leaked in 22 years, and the evolution engines are known to be rather tight. Overfilling the crankcase can cause oil to go out the breather though, so don't over fill it. I notice the author is  a guy from Revzilla named only "Lemmy" so if he wants credibility he should perhaps sign his name. Also, your basic premise is false. Harley riders do not long for the good old days when the bikes leaked oil and broke down. In the past Harleys and British bikes were known to leak oil, but not today.


Edited by gmor, Jun. 26 2018 - 12:37 PM.



#38 ONLINE   MontanaLon

MontanaLon

    Flew with the Thunderbirds!


  • Group:Bronze Patron
  • Posts: 22,939
  • Joined: Mar. 02 2009
  • Location:central, hellinois


Posted Jun. 26 2018 - 01:39 PM

I used that one as an example because it used small words and should have been easy for you to understand. Nope. Oil leaks on Harley's are ubiquitous. If you ride, they leak, if it sits still it leaks. Yes, they are less likely to leak now because the chain isn't oiled the way it used to be, but they still leak oil. 

 

I guess the 1.3 million google hits on "Why does my Harley leak oil?" are somehow out of the normal and none of the various people who respond to that question including H-D engineers know what they are talking about. 

 

And why do my many friends who own Harley's drain the oil over the winter? They always complain that when we get one of those January days that they would love to go riding but they don't want to put oil in only to have to drain it back out so it doesn't leak over the next 3 months sitting in the garage. 

 

I'll let them all know that your bike didn't leak so it is just a figment of their imagination.




#39 OFFLINE   gmor

gmor

  • Group:Members
  • Posts: 30,588
  • Joined: Dec. 30 2009
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH


Posted Jun. 26 2018 - 02:24 PM

I used that one as an example because it used small words and should have been easy for you to understand. Nope. Oil leaks on Harley's are ubiquitous. If you ride, they leak, if it sits still it leaks. Yes, they are less likely to leak now because the chain isn't oiled the way it used to be, but they still leak oil. 
 
I guess the 1.3 million google hits on "Why does my Harley leak oil?" are somehow out of the normal and none of the various people who respond to that question including H-D engineers know what they are talking about. 
 
And why do my many friends who own Harley's drain the oil over the winter? They always complain that when we get one of those January days that they would love to go riding but they don't want to put oil in only to have to drain it back out so it doesn't leak over the next 3 months sitting in the garage. 
 
I'll let them all know that your bike didn't leak so it is just a figment of their imagination.

Maybe some of the other members here who own Harley's will weigh in. I never hear any problems with Evolution engines.


#40 OFFLINE   j-dub

j-dub

    Zombie H-K


  • Group:Gold Patron
  • Posts: 24,976
  • Joined: Feb. 22 2008
  • Location:Ontario


Posted Jun. 26 2018 - 02:43 PM

Harley is on the ropes, and it has zero to do with tariffs.   they shut down Kansas a while ago, before tariffs were drawn up, and that is where the screaming eagles come from.

 

you want to know at least one reason why?   people have wised up.   who is going to pay upwards of 30k for a motorcycle for nostalgia reasons, adding that the motorcycle will not hold its own with any of the competition.  they are heavy, slow, and ill handling bikes.

hd moved a lot of production to Thailand, and the merchandise they market is china or sri lanken crap.

 

hd has a lot of ground to make up, and as stated, it has nothing to do with tariffs.

 

I have owned a couple of evo's, and even an s&s crate.   the s&s was perfect, the hd evo's were not.  


  • bfausett84 likes this


Signature:




Forum Statistics

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users

Information Center