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Left-Wing Antifa Terrorists ‘Freaking Out’ over Proposed ‘Unmasking’ Law


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#21 ONLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 12 2018 - 10:18 PM

It's not necessary. While it's legal to walk down the street with a baseball bat in your hand, if you show up at a protest with one, the cops sort of know what you're up to, and when you do it, should be positioned to intercede, even if it does ramp up the urgency in which you do so. You show up at a protest with a mask, you should have cops in your hip pocket, and when you break the law, you're dealt with swiftly, efficiently, and without fanfare. The mask is part of the profile of someone who is about to break the law and try to get away with it. Invest in impact munitions, and activate mutual aid agreements. Bring in enough cops to swarm the area. Don't allow protests to take to the street, keep them from blocking streets or sidewalks. 

 

Departments are currently buying into the politically correct idea that you can allow someone to create a "little" mayhem. "Small riots" aren't an issue, until they are. If thugs in Klan hoods show up, let them protest on the sidewalk. They block traffic, pedestrian or vehicle, they go to jail same as Antifa thugs. 

 

Spot on Pepper.

 

The best thing, as you and I have said is to arrest everyone who is breaking the law that you can get your flex cuffs on. 

 

People really have an aversion to pepper-foggers, not to mention bats and hats. I have dealt with enough riots in my life to know is all it takes is a little determination by the authorities. I have lived through the "allow a little riot" and "let them close the street"  (a State Highway, no less) and it was the worst time we ever had, more Officers injured, and we ended up using more force than we normally would. 

 

The next Halloween my Chief had his way with the City Council, and we were loaded for bear. 

It took several years of major violence and property damage from just that one instance in giving them an inch to fix things. 

I can't imagine if you have young people these days who have never been challenged to obey the law and be civil, and then have to turn up the heat. 

But it must be done.

This crap has gone beyond absurd, IMHO.


Edited by Retcop, Jul. 12 2018 - 10:25 PM.

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#22 ONLINE   MontanaLon

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Posted Jul. 12 2018 - 10:19 PM

If I were investigating local ANTIFA activity in my town, I would be using some facial recognition software and start looking at 

videotapes from stores, banks, ATM's, etc. 

Walmart and ATM's are pretty popular visiting places for out of state agitators. Plus you get their name from the cards. 

 

Walmart has gone to using cameras at their self serve lanes here. If you go through a lane it gets a picture of your face just like an ATM. 

 

Some places have started using license plate readers as well. There is a literal gold mine of data there for the astute investigator.


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#23 ONLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 12 2018 - 10:36 PM

the thing is laws and morals should be set by society as a whole and when the gov makes laws against the will of society we have a problem. Unfortunately as patriots we may be forced to do something illegal fighting to preserve our society and countries values.

 

I not quite understanding how a mask law would be "against the will of society".  It our elected representatives pass a law, and IF it is challenged and found to pass Constitutional muster, how is it against the will of society ?

We have a representative republic form of government. 

Majority rule is Mob rule, as many of our Founders so astutely pointed out. 

It is why we elect people to represent us is in government, and why our President is elected by an Electoral College.

In fact, i wish we would go back to having the State's Houses elect their U.S. Senators. Let's not forget our roots.

 

You are scaring me with this "will of society" stuff, brother.  

If I have misinterpreted something, please let me know. 

 

John




#24 OFFLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Jul. 12 2018 - 10:42 PM

I just see it as a way the government is trying to protect itself from its constituents when it choses to no longer represent use and turn tyrannical. I may be off base and i don’t mind being called out, i have just been real upset as of late seeing all the news headlines especially today about how corrupt the justice system has become.


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#25 ONLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 12 2018 - 10:55 PM

Walmart and ATM's are pretty popular visiting places for out of state agitators. Plus you get their name from the cards. 

 

Walmart has gone to using cameras at their self serve lanes here. If you go through a lane it gets a picture of your face just like an ATM. 

 

Some places have started using license plate readers as well. There is a literal gold mine of data there for the astute investigator.

 

Please don't get the idea I am in favor of a "surveillance society", like the Brits.

I am not. 

If my intel is that any group is in town and I have reason to believe a crime is about to be committed, then these tools are OK to use in an investigation,

even if it takes a warrant.

 

I am not in favor of blanket use of plate readers, auto face recognition surveillance of the general public, etc. 

There must be probable cause or reasonable suspicion to have a bonafide investigation opened to solve crimes that have happened,

or that I have reason to believe are about to happen. I believe many of these ANTIFA types qualify as terrorists, and before November 2018, there will be no doubt.

 

It is my hope we have undercover people in some of these cells that are known to be committing crimes so that we can get more intel on just how they operate

and their organizational structure. If things are heading where the evidence seems to be pointing, we need to get a handle on this gang activity. 


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#26 ONLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 12 2018 - 11:34 PM

I just see it as a way the government is trying to protect itself from its constituents when it choses to no longer represent use and turn tyrannical. I may be off base and i don’t mind being called out, i have just been real upset as of late seeing all the news headlines especially today about how corrupt the justice system has become.


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I am not "calling you out", my friend. We are simply having a good discussion, IMO.

If I said something offensive, it was not my intent.

I respect your opinion, and am always ready to look at a topic from different directions. 

 

Did what I said in response make any sense? 

 

As to your latest post, I think we have to be careful not to indict the entire Criminal Justice System.

What has gone on in this "soft coup" with Hillary email and Trump "collusion"  is an example of career political operatives being placed

at high levels, and abusing their power for very focused and rare purposes. 

 

The vast majority of the CJS is staffed by dedicated and hard working oath keepers who believe in the Constitution.

Just because our Republic hit a perfect nexus of the unquenchable thirst for power by the Clintons, and the very upper levels of

the DOJ and FBI corrupted by the immoral and unethical Obama, who believed he could continue his destruction of America through the election of Hillary Clinton. This is not good reason to abandon our system of justice. You must agree that the 8 years of Obama was not America at its best. 

It is still the best CJS in the world, IMHO. Do we have problems with a handful of very bad actors who were allowed to abuse their power under 

the guidance of the most radical President in our history. Damn right. Is this the norm?  Hell no.

 

I do not believe that your concerns are without merit. In any other administration Strozyk would never had been allowed to be instrumental in both the Hillary email case and the Trump "collusion" case. This fish rotted from the head down, and overall our Justice system is in good hands, IMO. 

One problem we need to figure out is how to get oathkeeper types  with wealth to start competing companies to the googles, the Facebooks, and the mainstream TV media of the world.  I don't think how far Left our media has gone should be underestimated in how far these two latest scandals were allowed to fester. For example, 25 years ago, there would be no way in hell the press would have allowed a special prosecutor like Mueller to staff his investigation team with hardcore opposition political operatives. 

 

We need to work hard so that Obama continues to become just a bump in our Constitutional road. So far so good with President Trump. .  It is easy to get discouraged when the media ignores all the improvements, and lies about bad things that are not happening. If we continue to solidify our conservative values, we will get back on track. I have great faith that this Republic and her people can overcome any challenge. Our Founders gave us the tools. 

 

But they also said we must be a moral people for it to work. One thing we all can do is to stop tolerating decadence in all its forms.  I honestly believe this nation was blown of course, and I honestly believe it is righting itself.  We have weathered worse than this.   We all need to become disciples of the Constitution and individual liberty, and proponents of living a decent life full of purpose. We must stop being tolerant of things that are wrong.Twenty months of a good man in Office, and look at the change. NOW is the time to throw the rest of the bums out. We should be honored to be alive and in a position to help return this Republic to its roots.  

 

John


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#27 ONLINE   MontanaLon

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Posted Jul. 12 2018 - 11:55 PM

 

Please don't get the idea I am in favor of a "surveillance society", like the Brits.

I am not. 

If my intel is that any group is in town and I have reason to believe a crime is about to be committed, then these tools are OK to use in an investigation,

even if it takes a warrant.

 

I am not in favor of blanket use of plate readers, auto face recognition surveillance of the general public, etc. 

There must be probable cause or reasonable suspicion to have a bonafide investigation opened to solve crimes that have happened,

or that I have reason to believe are about to happen. I believe many of these ANTIFA types qualify as terrorists, and before November 2018, there will be no doubt.

 

It is my hope we have undercover people in some of these cells that are known to be committing crimes so that we can get more intel on just how they operate

and their organizational structure. If things are heading where the evidence seems to be pointing, we need to get a handle on this gang activity. 

I am not in favor of the surveillance state either, but I am even less in favor of criminals and terrorists. 

 

Having dealt with criminals on a regular basis and the cops on a regular basis because of the criminals, I'd much rather the cops get what they need to deal with the criminals than the other way around. The overwhelming majority of security cameras in the US belong to private people and businesses. The vast majority of whom will share their footage with the police when they are the victim of a crime. Many will also willingly share it when someone else has been the victim of a crime even without a warrant. 

 

The thing is, facial recognition is well within the reach of private businesses. I know for a fact that Walmart uses it to identify known criminals in their stores. It wouldn't surprise me and in fact I would be shocked if they weren't also using it to attempt to identify the kids they have on the wall of "missing kids". 

 

The thing is I have seen the police acting in defense of the scumbags at the orders of politicians more than once over the past 9 years. It is past time to get the politics out of law enforcing and just enforce the damn laws.




#28 OFFLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 12:13 AM

I am not "calling you out", my friend. We are simply having a good discussion, IMO.
If I said something offensive, it was not my intent.
I respect your opinion, and am always ready to look at a topic from different directions. 
 
Did what I said in response make any sense? 
 
As to your latest post, I think we have to be careful not to indict the entire Criminal Justice System.
What has gone on in this "soft coup" with Hillary email and Trump "collusion"  is an example of career political operatives being placed
at high levels, and abusing their power for very focused and rare purposes. 
 
The vast majority of the CJS is staffed by dedicated and hard working oath keepers who believe in the Constitution.
Just because our Republic hit a perfect nexus of the unquenchable thirst for power by the Clintons, and the very upper levels of
the DOJ and FBI corrupted by the immoral and unethical Obama, who believed he could continue his destruction of America through the election of Hillary Clinton. This is not good reason to abandon our system of justice. You must agree that the 8 years of Obama was not America at its best. 
It is still the best CJS in the world, IMHO. Do we have problems with a handful of very bad actors who were allowed to abuse their power under 
the guidance of the most radical President in our history. Damn right. Is this the norm?  Hell no.
 
I do not believe that your concerns are without merit. In any other administration Strozyk would never had been allowed to be instrumental in both the Hillary email case and the Trump "collusion" case. This fish rotted from the head down, and overall our Justice system is in good hands, IMO. 
One problem we need to figure out is how to get oathkeeper types  with wealth to start competing companies to the googles, the Facebooks, and the mainstream TV media of the world.  I don't think how far Left our media has gone should be underestimated in how far these two latest scandals were allowed to fester. For example, 25 years ago, there would be no way in hell the press would have allowed a special prosecutor like Mueller to staff his investigation team with hardcore opposition political operatives. 
 
We need to work hard so that Obama continues to become just a bump in our Constitutional road. So far so good with President Trump. .  It is easy to get discouraged when the media ignores all the improvements, and lies about bad things that are not happening. If we continue to solidify our conservative values, we will get back on track. I have great faith that this Republic and her people can overcome any challenge. Our Founders gave us the tools. 
 
But they also said we must be a moral people for it to work. One thing we all can do is to stop tolerating decadence in all its forms.  I honestly believe this nation was blown of course, and I honestly believe it is righting itself.  We have weathered worse than this.   We all need to become disciples of the Constitution and individual liberty, and proponents of living a decent life full of purpose. We must stop being tolerant of things that are wrong.Twenty months of a good man in Office, and look at the change. NOW is the time to throw the rest of the bums out. We should be honored to be alive and in a position to help return this Republic to its roots.  
 
John

You by no means offended me, if someone feels i am wrong i dont mind being told so.

I am against this because Oklahoma tried this already a couple years ago and it got so broad to the point that the gov could dictate if it was cold enough to wear a hoodie or hooded jacket. From what I understand it is already a crime to where a disquise when conducting a crime in most place, so in my opinionnit js a useless law.

Another thing that has me pissed is that Oklahoma put medical marijuana out for a vote and it passed, then the state turned around and regulated it out of existence. So, now all the tax payers have to take on the burden of all the law suits being filed because they went against the will of its constituents. I dont personally care one way or another, but it does not give the state a right to institute bs to avoid doing what was voted in either. I am just getting so angry watching and reading the news lately.

Today jackass interview in congress put the cherry on top for me. I think i need a break from this crap we call news...

Edited by hzhardy, Jul. 13 2018 - 12:14 AM.



#29 ONLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 12:32 AM

I am not in favor of the surveillance state either, but I am even less in favor of criminals and terrorists. 

 

Having dealt with criminals on a regular basis and the cops on a regular basis because of the criminals, I'd much rather the cops get what they need to deal with the criminals than the other way around. The overwhelming majority of security cameras in the US belong to private people and businesses. The vast majority of whom will share their footage with the police when they are the victim of a crime. Many will also willingly share it when someone else has been the victim of a crime even without a warrant. 

 

The thing is, facial recognition is well within the reach of private businesses. I know for a fact that Walmart uses it to identify known criminals in their stores. It wouldn't surprise me and in fact I would be shocked if they weren't also using it to attempt to identify the kids they have on the wall of "missing kids". 

 

The thing is I have seen the police acting in defense of the scumbags at the orders of politicians more than once over the past 9 years. It is past time to get the politics out of law enforcing and just enforce the damn laws.

 

I hear you. I still believe we need to procede with extreme caution.

 

One of the facts of living in a free and open society under proper Constitutional limits, 

is that it is inherently easier for bad guys to comit crimes, and having certain protections, are not taken by the police

and a bullet placed in their braqin pan.

 

I, for one, am willing to live with this dynamic in order to have the freedom that I do have. 

If we allow the government to become the thing we despise in the hopeful gain of safety, it is just not worth it, IMO.

 

I know you mentioned private businesses, but if we have them acting as agents of the governmrnt, there is no practiacal difference, IMO.

With the abuses of the NSA, and control of information on the internet by fewer and fewer companies,

I have no desire that going out in public means that thus giving up an expectation of privacy is going to be compltely wiped clean by the universal use of modern technology, that is not my idea of living free when my every move, transaction, and communication is captured and recorded for possible future use.  Giving up my expectation of privacy by being in public should not mean that the government has the ability to identify me everywhere I go. 

 

Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. I think if we continue down this road, we will lose a little part of what it means to be an American.  I will gladly take more responsibility for my own security in exchange for more privacy. We have already given up so much privacy just by using the internet and smartphones.  I fully expect to see legislation proposed in the not to distant future to put GPS units in every new automobile.

I don't want to live like that. Next they will be tracking your speed with it, or determining it your seatbelt is buckled. Yo see where I am going. Some of this facial recognition stuff was just recently proposed as a marketing tool to identify you, tap into your buying habits, and make it easier for you to buy things, or do what you enjoy doing, wherever you may be, via your phone.Yeah right, that is all it will be used for.  Fingerprint and face readers linked to your info? No thanks. And how safe will this information be ?  Privacy may already be on life support, but I have no desire to pull the plug myself, and I, for one, will resist, even if in the end it is futile.  Somebody please turn off this sci-fi horror movie. 

 

As a guy who thrives on putting bad guys in jail, I am more than willing to hold on to some vestige of privacy, making it just a little harder to catch bad guys. It is a small price to pay to try and keep an open and free society, rather than being the subject of overwhelming surveillance. 

 

As I said, these tools have their place in LE, but IMO, it is not to identify everyone as a matter of course. 

We might as all get tracking chips next time we take the dog to the vet. 




#30 OFFLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 12:44 AM

I hear you. I still believe we need to procede with extreme caution.
 
One of the facts of living in a free and open society under proper Constitutional limits, 
is that it is inherently easier for bad guys to comit crimes, and having certain protections, are not taken by the police
and a bullet placed in their braqin pan.
 
I, for one, am willing to live with this dynamic in order to have the freedom that I do have. 
If we allow the government to become the thing we despise in the hopeful gain of safety, it is just not worth it, IMO.
 
I know you mentioned private businesses, but if we have them acting as agents of the governmrnt, there is no practiacal difference, IMO.
With the abuses of the NSA, and control of information on the internet by fewer and fewer companies,
I have no desire that going out in public means that thus giving up an expectation of privacy is going to be compltely wiped clean by the universal use of modern technology, that is not my idea of living free when my every move, transaction, and communication is captured and recorded for possible future use.  Giving up my expectation of privacy by being in public should not mean that the government has the ability to identify me everywhere I go. 
 
Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. I think if we continue down this road, we will lose a little part of what it means to be an American.  I will gladly take more responsibility for my own security in exchange for more privacy. We have already given up so much privacy just by using the internet and smartphones.  I fully expect to see legislation proposed in the not to distant future to put GPS units in every new automobile.
I don't want to live like that. Next they will be tracking your speed with it, or determining it your seatbelt is buckled. Yo see where I am going. Some of this facial recognition stuff was just recently proposed as a marketing tool to identify you, tap into your buying habits, and make it easier for you to buy things, or do what you enjoy doing, wherever you may be, via your phone.Yeah right, that is all it will be used for.  Fingerprint and face readers linked to your info? No thanks. And how safe will this information be ?  Privacy may already be on life support, but I have no desire to pull the plug myself, and I, for one, will resist, even if in the end it is futile.  Somebody please turn off this sci-fi horror movie. 
 
As a guy who thrives on putting bad guys in jail, I am more than willing to hold on to some vestige of privacy, making it just a little harder to catch bad guys. It is a small price to pay to try and keep an open and free society, rather than being the subject of overwhelming surveillance. 
 
As I said, these tools have their place in LE, but IMO, it is not to identify everyone as a matter of course. 
We might as all get tracking chips next time we take the dog to the vet.

technology is definately a scary thing at times especially when abused. Last gun show i went to in the city, i went to go get something out of my truck and saw an unmarket car out fited with tag scanner going up and down every row in the lot. Pissed me off beyond belief! I heard of this shat in California, but could not believe this it was happining in such a deep red state like Oklahoma...


#31 OFFLINE   TomJefferson

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 07:32 AM

This "new" law wont do shat. There are already laws on the books involving the wearing of masks, and they aren't being enforced.

That's what this is all about isn't it?  That's the politicians reaction to laws aren't being adhered to, not enforce the law just pass another law.  

 

Most of these BS not enforcing laws laws handicap cops more than they help.  Cell phone laws are a classic example.  Reckless driving is reckless driving and its penalties a heck of a lot worse than a cell phone fine.  So here we are instead of nailing idiots for reckless driving giving them tickets for cell phones and just like this proposed law, its not stopping a thing while punishing those who can talk and drive at the same time. 

 

Its inherently wrong to punish the innocent to get the guilty and we should oppose any law that crosses that bounds.  Masks are used for way more than committing crimes.  

 

Tj 




#32 ONLINE   DanR

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 10:22 AM

In most places this is just an "add on law" used to increase penalties for criminals.




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#33 ONLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 10:39 AM

That's what this is all about isn't it?  That's the politicians reaction to laws aren't being adhered to, not enforce the law just pass another law.  

 

Most of these BS not enforcing laws laws handicap cops more than they help.  Cell phone laws are a classic example.  Reckless driving is reckless driving and its penalties a heck of a lot worse than a cell phone fine.  So here we are instead of nailing idiots for reckless driving giving them tickets for cell phones and just like this proposed law, its not stopping a thing while punishing those who can talk and drive at the same time. 

 

Its inherently wrong to punish the innocent to get the guilty and we should oppose any law that crosses that bounds.  Masks are used for way more than committing crimes.  

 

Tj 

 

While I agree with you in many instances we don't need another law, there is something you are not taking into account.

If a prosecutor had to prove the elements of willful an wanton behavior for someone talking on a cell phone every time an instance as prosecuted, it 

would be a giant mess, and a defense lawyer's wetdream.

Much better to just pass a simple traffic ordinance, with criminal consequences for repeat offenders. 




#34 ONLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 10:41 AM

You by no means offended me, if someone feels i am wrong i dont mind being told so.

I am against this because Oklahoma tried this already a couple years ago and it got so broad to the point that the gov could dictate if it was cold enough to wear a hoodie or hooded jacket. From what I understand it is already a crime to where a disquise when conducting a crime in most place, so in my opinionnit js a useless law.

Another thing that has me pissed is that Oklahoma put medical marijuana out for a vote and it passed, then the state turned around and regulated it out of existence. So, now all the tax payers have to take on the burden of all the law suits being filed because they went against the will of its constituents. I dont personally care one way or another, but it does not give the state a right to institute bs to avoid doing what was voted in either. I am just getting so angry watching and reading the news lately.

Today jackass interview in congress put the cherry on top for me. I think i need a break from this crap we call news...

 

So Oklahoma passes laws by ballot initiative ?

There is the problem right there, IMO. 

Majority rule is mob rule. 




#35 OFFLINE   tommag

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 10:58 PM

I no longer think it's going to get as bad as I used to think.
Unmasking the thugs makes the prosecution a bit easier, if there is the political will to prosecute the thugs. Gee, I wonder why the worst antifa crap takes place in seattle,Portland, etc?
Getting back to the subject of masks, in the scenario I used to envision, I think masks should be encouraged. It would serve as a sort of uniform, making targets easier to identify for all of us bubbas that acted in the absence of official police response.
I hope I'm right in my current thinking that the general public is getting tired of all this and even Portland will be pressured into doing the right thing, eliminating the need for bubba to do it.


#36 ONLINE   MontanaLon

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Posted Jul. 13 2018 - 11:58 PM

The more I think about it the more I see this Bill as being political grandstanding and posturing on a grand scale. 

 

Why?

 

Because there have been mobs of masked and not masked "peacefully protesting" in most states of the Union and we have yet to see mass arrests of those doing said "protesting". Unless and until we see the cops swoop in and arrest and load up protesters by the busload, it won't make a difference if they are masked or not. If you arrest them you get to yank the masks off and book them in to jail. 

 

The simple truth is the ones wearing masks and the ones not wearing masks aren't being arrested even though there are crimes being committed in the presence of police. Change that and we wouldn't need any new laws.

 

If the ones in the masks are a danger to life and limb, put a bullet through their melon. Or better yet, let the Citizens do it. Pretty soon the ones in the masks will be going to protest where it isn't so likely they will be shot, away from the People.


  • Flesh Wound and bamashooter like this


#37 OFFLINE   gshayd

gshayd

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Posted Jul. 14 2018 - 08:34 AM

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya




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NRA 4 Life
 

As it will be in the future it was at the birth of Man

There are only four things certain since Social Progress began

That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire.

And the burnt Fool's Bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the fire

 

"It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer “universal health care.”  Dr Thomas Sowell


#38 OFFLINE   gshayd

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Posted Jul. 14 2018 - 08:36 AM

There are some places that already require you to remove the mask to attend a protest.  shirt, shoes and no masks or you don't protest. On private property.


Edited by gshayd, Jul. 14 2018 - 08:37 AM.






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