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I am starting a new training routine. First, Drawing and firing five rounds in 10 seconds at 25 yards. I am looking to meet an 80% hit rate. Next is drawing and firing at 10 yards, five rounds, drop the mag and reload and fire an additional five rounds. 8 out of the ten rounds must be in the target with at least 5 of those rounds being in the head area. I give myself 15 seconds for this round.

 

Next is with my AR. From a rifle ready position at 50 yards, firing as I advance, 30 rounds in 25 seconds while advancing but not getting any closer to the target than 30 yards. Again an 80% hit rate is the goal.

 

Last is a CQB routine. From behind a barrier move out, fire two rounds from the rifle at more than two targets, minimum of three targets, at unknown range, then drop the rifle, draw my handgun and fire two rounds in each target. I give myself 15 seconds for this. Again an 80% hit rate for each target.

 

I feel that increasing the range will help me at closer ranges. I am using the standard FBI Q targets with any round in the line counting as a hit, at least for now. I plan to raise the hit percent as I get better. I am also thinking about doing the first two from my knees and laying on my back.

 

Any ideas on how to improve on any of these routines?

 

 

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Once you get your hit ratio and your time where you want it, take off 5 seconds and score "heros and zeros" any miss is a total miss on that target.

 

You could also make each target a body armor drill or USMC body armor drill (2 chest, 2 hips/pelvic area for mobility kill, then the head for the kill)

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For the handgun, I would start closer in, and then move back .

 

Not quite sure why you are starting at 25 yards for your sidearm.

It is excellent to be proficient at that distance, but most SD with a pistol

is going to be close, down and dirty.

 

I would rather see you work on 3, 7 and 15 yards, also while working on a target advancing on you.

Making a target stand on wheels with a rope is easy.

IMHO, training to move and shoot, including multiple and moving targets is more important than being able to engage w/ high hit % with a sidearm at 25 yards on stationary targets.

 

Unless you have done that already.

 

Edit: when you say 80% on target, what exactly do you mean.

 

John

Edited by Retcop

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I have been, and will continue, training on the "El Presidentie" at 10 to 15 yards and shooting on the move, forward and back and side to side. But I am always looking to keep my training interesting and challenging. I watched a retired Army Command Sargent Major, who was an instructor at the Scout Sniper school, hit a metal target at 150 yards with a 9mm pistol. If I can hit the target 80%+ times in training at 25 yards I should be able to hit the target at closer ranges. There is an old saying, "sweating hard in training and you will bleed less in combat". Also, by showing that you do train at longer ranges if you are involved in a shooting can make it easier for a jury to accept that your shot was justified and doable.

 

Lastly, remember to train like you intend to fight because you will fight like you train. And all of us should attempt to reach the following goal: "Smooth is fast"!!!

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My grandson is an LEO in Ohio. I was visiting a couple of years ago and he asked "Grampa.............how far would you be willing to pull your pistol and shoot at a perp?" I told him I had no business doing that from further than 21 feet because beyond than that I've the option to retreat. He laughed and said he was proud of me. Do I practice from further than that? Of course, but not from the holster! Because if I'm further than that I should be gettin' the heck out of Dodge, not pulling a pistol to shoot!!!

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My grandson is an LEO in Ohio. I was visiting a couple of years ago and he asked "Grampa.............how far would you be willing to pull your pistol and shoot at a perp?" I told him I had no business doing that from further than 21 feet because beyond than that I've the option to retreat. He laughed and said he was proud of me. Do I practice from further than that? Of course, but not from the holster! Because if I'm further than that I should be gettin' the heck out of Dodge, not pulling a pistol to shoot!!!

 

Alone I might consider retreating if and only if I know the perp can not or will not follow. While laws differ in different states, here in South Carolina we do no have an obligation to retreat. I also know that I will never turn my back on a threat and that I can not outrun 90% of the bad guys on the streets. Also, here we can use the level of force against a perp that the person being attacked can use. So, I know that sometime in the future I may be required to shoot from farther than 7 yards to attempt to save a life.

 

So, retreat if you can safely. But train to be ready to shoot at greater ranges than 7 yards when it becomes necessary.

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For the handgun, I would start closer in, and then move back .

 

Not quite sure why you are starting at 25 yards for your sidearm.

It is excellent to be proficient at that distance, but most SD with a pistol

is going to be close, down and dirty.

 

I would rather see you work on 3, 7 and 15 yards, also while working on a target advancing on you.

Making a target stand on wheels with a rope is easy.

IMHO, training to move and shoot, including multiple and moving targets is more important than being able to engage w/ high hit % with a sidearm at 25 yards on stationary targets.

 

Unless you have done that already.

 

Edit: when you say 80% on target, what exactly do you mean.

 

John

 

8 out of 10 rounds fired will be inside the lines of the target, I use the FBI "Q" target, For a round on a line I count it as a hit if more than one half of the diameter of the bullet is on the inside of the line.

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Good on ya for training. Most people (95% or more if I'd have to guess) don't train near often enough or become proficient enough with their sidearm.

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Alone I might consider retreating if and only if I know the perp can not or will not follow. While laws differ in different states, here in South Carolina we do no have an obligation to retreat. I also know that I will never turn my back on a threat and that I can not outrun 90% of the bad guys on the streets. Also, here we can use the level of force against a perp that the person being attacked can use. So, I know that sometime in the future I may be required to shoot from farther than 7 yards to attempt to save a life.

 

So, retreat if you can safely. But train to be ready to shoot at greater ranges than 7 yards when it becomes necessary.

 

I was just going to but a "like" on this because you make a lot of good points, but I thought It was important enough to emphasise your spot on point that it is

critical to know the laws in your State regarding the use of deadly force.

 

In addition, regardless of the State you live in, you should always be able to articulate why you were in fear of death or great bodily harm if you ever discharge a firearm at another human being. Telling the police your were in fear of same should not be a problem in any Court.

The why can wait until your lawyer gets there.

 

BTW: I never said you should not train for longer distances.

I maintain that 25 yards is not the best place to start, especially for new shooters and those who are training to improve their CCW skills.

Trying to draw at 3, 7 or even 15 yards and putting at least 2-3 in the sternum as quickly as possible, is a totally

different goal than precision shooting at 25 or greater yards.

 

Then we must remember that statistically more bad guys are using body armor, and can't forget the one to the head,(or hip) since we should be training to the scenario where our center mass shots are not effective.

I do agree 100% that smooth is fast. Trying to hit a bobbing, moving head at 25 yards (especially if they are shooting back) it is not the easiest thing in the world to do for yours truly, so I'll stick to center mass or the pelvis. Better shooters than I might not have the same problem. I guess for some it is child's play, but I am not in that club.

Of course, in a gunfight at 25 yards or greater, you should have more options than standing there and engaging the target.

 

With respect,

John

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I was just going to but a "like" on this because you make a lot of good points, but I thought It was important enough to emphasise your spot on point that it is

critical to know the laws in your State regarding the use of deadly force.

 

In addition, regardless of the State you live in, you should always be able to articulate why you were in fear of death or great bodily harm if you ever discharge a firearm at another human being. Telling the police your were in fear of same should not be a problem in any Court.

The why can wait until your lawyer gets there.

 

BTW: I never said you should not train for longer distances.

I maintain that 25 yards is not the best place to start, especially for new shooters and those who are training to improve their CCW skills.

Trying to draw at 3, 7 or even 15 yards and putting at least 2-3 in the sternum as quickly as possible, is a totally

different goal than precision shooting at 25 or greater yards.

 

Then we must remember that statistically more bad guys are using body armor, and can't forget the one to the head,(or hip) since we should be training to the scenario where our center mass shots are not effective.

I do agree 100% that smooth is fast. Trying to hit a bobbing, moving head at 25 yards (especially if they are shooting back) it is not the easiest thing in the world to do for yours truly, so I'll stick to center mass or the pelvis. Better shooters than I might not have the same problem. I guess for some it is child's play, but I am not in that club.

Of course, in a gunfight at 25 yards or greater, you should have more options than standing there and engaging the target.

 

With respect,

John

 

Yup!!!

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My grandson is an LEO in Ohio. I was visiting a couple of years ago and he asked "Grampa.............how far would you be willing to pull your pistol and shoot at a perp?" I told him I had no business doing that from further than 21 feet because beyond than that I've the option to retreat. He laughed and said he was proud of me. Do I practice from further than that? Of course, but not from the holster! Because if I'm further than that I should be gettin' the heck out of Dodge, not pulling a pistol to shoot!!!

This. Its fine to train from that distance but an SD shoot will be questionable.

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