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FN Five Seven

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As this vidoe shows. Our ProtecTOR round goes right through. The same level vest stopped the 44mag, 45acp and 9mm cold.

 

 

Here is the same level vest stopping other calibers.

 

 

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Well I've been tossing around the idea of getting one of these guys and I just wanted some input from owners.

 

Is this a good gun for concealed carry? How is the size and weight? I have bigger hands but I am pretty skinny so that rules out some bigger guns for me.

 

I currently carry a Glock30 (.45 Compact)

 

Personally, I don't own an FN Five Seven, but I've had the option, and I'll tell you why I didn't pick it. Just my .02 cents. For one, the profiling is huge. Have you seen the front sight on these things? Combine that with the over-all height of the upper half of the gun (Very funky profile). For two, the round might sound fun to have in a pistol because it's unique and different, but let's face the facts here, it's not very big, and it's very pointy. When I get a pistol it will probably be a 1911, or an XD(M). That's just my .02 cents, something to consider. And sorry if I'm necroing.

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Absolutely love my 5-7! It definitely has re power than a 9mm...has more accurate range thats for sure.

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Personally, I don't own an FN Five Seven, but I've had the option, and I'll tell you why I didn't pick it. Just my .02 cents. For one, the profiling is huge. Have you seen the front sight on these things? Combine that with the over-all height of the upper half of the gun (Very funky profile). For two, the round might sound fun to have in a pistol because it's unique and different, but let's face the facts here, it's not very big, and it's very pointy. When I get a pistol it will probably be a 1911, or an XD(M). That's just my .02 cents, something to consider. And sorry if I'm necroing.

 

 

It's the same size as a full sized 1911. In fact smaller in some areas. You need to hold one side by side with a 1911.

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I own the 5.7and several 1911's, and I can attest to side-by-side comparisons: The 5.7 is certainly lighter, but it prints much worse than any of my 1911's. Furthermore, it is cumbersome, IMO, for IWB.

 

As far as ammo, it may be on par, kinetic energy wise, with larger caliber rounds, but the sectional density makes this round much more prone to over penetration issues - regardless of bullet type. I have done my own testing with various solid and water based targets and this is holding true. I have no doubts it is a capable round, but it will never have the knockdown power that a good .45 has (energy dissipation rate/ impulse).

 

It has a very respectable amount of firepower and this makes it attractive. I like it in my vehicle in a seat holster with a rail laser - it makes an awesome rolling rumble weapon, which as I think about it, was about what it was intended for (crew mounted side arm).

 

Bottom line, having both,and firing them both extensively, I prefer the 1911 or a good .357 in an anticipated SD situation.

 

Please don't flame - this is only my opinion.

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No flaming just some facts from testing. Actaully our testing show otherwise. It does not over penetrate. This is a myth. I have included videos of the test session the generated the stats. The 5.7x28 from the pistol has no problems generating 405ft-lbs of energy and dumping all of it into the target. People assume that since it goes through body armor so well it will keep going through the body. This is just not true as demonstrated below.

 

 

 

Round: S4 UltraRapTOR

 

Type: 28gr Aluminum Core HP

 

Application: Law Enforcement Duty round designed to penetrate obstacles commonly encountered on duty, windshields, car doors etc. and still perform on soft tissue after penetration of obstacle.

 

Capable of defeating 30 layers of Kevlar while still penetrating 8.0 inches of 10% ballistic gelatin"

 

FiveseveN Pistol P90 PS90

2,600fps - 405 Ft-Lb’s 3,053fps - 560 Ft-Lb’s 3,340fps - 666 Ft-Lb’s

 

 

FsN USG Pistol 15 feet

5.7x28 ULTRA RAPTOR 10% 14"x6" gel block test

Control shot: .17cal BB 4.2" penetration

8.5" penetration, with 4.5" cavity measured at widest section.

 

 

 

 

 

FsN USG Pistol 15 feet

5.7x28 ULTRA RAPTOR 10% 14"x6" gel block test

Control shot: .17cal BB 4.2" penetration

Point Blank Level ll vest shot: 8.0" penetration, with 3.3" cavity at widest section.

Complete separation of the core from the jacket.

The jacket has completely fragmented in to fine shrapnel.

 

 

 

 

Here is from the same day and test session 45acp fired into the same SINGLE vest and gel.

 

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Granted - the 5.7 is a better penetrating round than the large caliber pistol rounds (at the very least the expanding .45 ACP shot at the vest in your last video). And to that end, if you are trying to defeat level II body armor, then using the 5.7 has clear advantages for hitting the target behind.

 

What I would like you to show is a comparison of 5.7 v.40 S&W v.45 ACP against the gel target WITHOUT a vest.

 

There is no comparison for knock down between the two - this has been combat proven again and again where the 5.56 x 45 at intermediate range of 200-300 yards has slowed to the "stable" velocity of your hot EA rounds, and the rounds fail to incapacitate immediately. The .45 has a particularly good and established reputation as a man-STOPPER (read "knock down" as evident by what happened to your vest in the demo).

 

Too many people are hooked into kinetic energy as the "tell-all" of effectiveness, but energy dump, energy RATE OF DUMP (power or "impulse" in rocket ballistics), and momentum are all key factors in the process. And of course, a well placed shot from a .22 LR is far better than a near miss with a 20mm cannon (shat factor aside). This last point goes towards the 1911's excellent handling characteristics. I like the 5.7 - it handles nicely (and is lighter), but it is not a 1911.

 

Don't mistake my stance- I like the 5.7, it is a utility round imo and has its place, but for straight up run-of-the-mill SD scenarios, it runs second to the large caliber hand guns; it still is unlikely that you will encounter thugs with vests. Now if I was expecting someone to be in body armor (home invasion, rolling riots [shooting through door panels] or some potential vest wielding character), then I can see having the 5.7 as strengthening my position dramatically in such a adrenaline laced point-and-shoot situation. If you are planning on facing an armored assailant, or want a night stand gun, it is a reasonable choice.

Edited by M-60A1

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Granted - the 5.7 is a better penetrating round than the large caliber pistol rounds (at the very least the expanding .45 ACP shot at the vest in your last video). And to that end, if you are trying to defeat level II body armor, then using the 5.7 has clear advantages for hitting the target behind.

 

What I would like you to show is a comparison of 5.7 v.40 S&W v.45 ACP against the gel target WITHOUT a vest.

 

There is no comparison for knock down between the two - this has been combat proven again and again where the 5.56 x 45 at intermediate range of 200-300 yards has slowed to the "stable" velocity of your hot EA rounds, and the rounds fail to incapacitate immediately. The .45 has a particularly good and established reputation as a man-STOPPER (read "knock down" as evident by what happened to your vest in the demo).

 

The issues with 5.56x45 is with military FMJ ball ammo so your comparison is erroneous it does not expand at all. If I load a good ballistic tip bullet into the 5.56 it will not in any way have the issues the ball ammo has stopping bad guys. This is what the happens with the 5.7 ball ammo. As you can see it perfoms very differrently from 5.56, 45, and 9mm ball ammo.

 

g4l20040720001.jpg

photo credit p99guy

 

 

There is a comparison to 45.40,9 etc. since it is PHYSICS. You cannot argue the basic laws of PHYSICS. 405 foot pounds of energy is 405 foot pounds of energy no matter what delivers it and it was all dumped into about 8 inches.

 

5.7x28 kills gel just as good as any of those, even more so then 40 Short and Weak that is younger then the 5.7x28 by 2 years.

 

Also our loads are not HOT as you state implying they are over loaded. They are all well under max pressure for the cartridge.

 

Too many people are hooked into kinetic energy as the "tell-all" of effectiveness, but energy dump, energy RATE OF DUMP (power or "impulse" in rocket ballistics), and momentum are all key factors in the process. And of course, a well placed shot from a .22 LR is far better than a near miss with a 20mm cannon (shat factor aside). This last point goes towards the 1911's excellent handling characteristics. I like the 5.7 - it handles nicely (and is lighter), but it is not a 1911.

 

I agree with you 405 foot pounds of energy dumped into 8 inches is very effective.

 

 

Don't mistake my stance- I like the 5.7, it is a utility round imo and has its place, but for straight up run-of-the-mill SD scenarios, it runs second to the large caliber hand guns; it still is unlikely that you will encounter thugs with vests. Now if I was expecting someone to be in body armor (home invasion, rolling riots [shooting through door panels] or some potential vest wielding character), then I can see having the 5.7 as strengthening my position dramatically in such a adrenaline laced point-and-shoot situation. If you are planning on facing an armored assailant, or want a night stand gun, it is a reasonable choice.

 

 

I also can state for a fact that more bad guys then ever are wearing armor. Talk to some LEO's. There are ones on this forum who will tell you it's more of a concern everyday.

Also weight a loaded 5.7 with 20 rounds ways allot less then an empty 1911.

5.7 can accurately engage targets effectively well beyond a 1911.

5.7 recoil is less the 9mm meaning it will by much easier to shoot and be accurate with.

 

 

 

 

Also for the record I like 45's and 1911's. I have many of them including a 7 grand custom 1911 from the early 90's. With Ball ammo in a military situation the 5.7 outperforms the 45 and 9mm Drastically. 45 and 9mm ball do not expand and are easily stopped by just about every type of cheap com bloc armor. The 5.7 military ball SS190's tip deforms causing the bullet to keyhole and dump all of it's energy in the target. Much like the Russian 5.45 does.

 

 

This is why NATO wanted it to replace the 9mm. I just want the truth to be disused. To many internet commandos pontificate about the 5.7 after never even shooting one and regurgitate miss information from 10 years ago from barf.com.

 

balisticbodyarmorplate.jpg

 

And now with the crap that went down at Hood we have data on the 5.7 in real life shootings.

Edited by panzermk2

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:ban:

Well I've been tossing around the idea of getting one of these guys and I just wanted some input from owners.

 

Is this a good gun for concealed carry? How is the size and weight? I have bigger hands but I am pretty skinny so that rules out some bigger guns for me.

 

I currently carry a Glock30 (.45 Compact)

I recommend you locate a friend or a person at your local gun range to try this tool out. It is awsome with the projectile velocity, and yet it kicks like a 22. When my finacial berings get back into the black....I plan to purchase another one. Shop around...Bass Pro asking too much.

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I had the chance to fire a Five-seveN a week or so ago at a indoor range, and I don't really think I can express how much I love the pistol and the cartridge.

 

I started off at 10 yards simply because I had never held or fired one before and after putting 10 rounds (fairly rapid) into center mass I pushed the target out to 20 with the same result (though with a larger spread as I haven't shot in quite awhile). It makes a hell of a bang and lights up like a christmas tree in central park, but it hardly has any recoil at all. Now I can't really speak as to the penetration of the round as I was just killing paper, but as for the firearm itself, I wouldn't have any problem using it as my carry weapon (though I live in Kentucky and OC daily so I'm not as worried about the frame profile). It settled in my grip well, weighed not much more loaded than a topped off metal AR magazine and was extremely easy to control.

 

Honestly, if I hadn't just bought an AR I would have probably gotten a Five-seveN to replace the Walther I carry now.

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Just get a pistol in .22 mag. It would be cheaper. I wouldn't worry about over-penetration, since the 5.7 does not meet minimum penetration requirements in FBI tests. As stated, physics are physics. A bullet nearly half the weight of a 5.56mm at half the velocity. My 9mm is a powerhouse by comparison.

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The issues with 5.56x45 is with military FMJ ball ammo so your comparison is erroneous it does not expand at all. If I load a good ballistic tip bullet into the 5.56 it will not in any way have the issues the ball ammo has stopping bad guys. This is what the happens with the 5.7 ball ammo. As you can see it perfoms very differrently from 5.56, 45, and 9mm ball ammo.Erroneous? Coming from the guy that used the example of a 120mm Sabot round on a tank to validate the terminal ballistics of 5.7mm. HA!

 

g4l20040720001.jpg

photo credit p99guy

 

 

There is a comparison to 45.40,9 etc. since it is PHYSICS. You cannot argue the basic laws of PHYSICS. 405 foot pounds of energy is 405 foot pounds of energy no matter what delivers it and it was all dumped into about 8 inches. We are talking terminal ballistics... your numbers are nice though.

 

5.7x28 kills gel just as good as any of those, even more so then 40 Short and Weak that is younger then the 5.7x28 by 2 years.

 

Also our loads are not HOT as you state implying they are over loaded. They are all well under max pressure for the cartridge.

 

 

 

I agree with you 405 foot pounds of energy dumped into 8 inches is very effective. Utter nonsense. Eight inches is well below the minimum penetration need to reliably incapacitate a person.

 

 

 

 

 

I also can state for a fact that more bad guys then ever are wearing armor. Talk to some LEO's. There are ones on this forum who will tell you it's more of a concern everyday.

Also weight a loaded 5.7 with 20 rounds ways allot less then an empty 1911.Which will: A. Not matter in a gun fight or B. Still have crappy terminal ballistics or C. All of the above?

5.7 can accurately engage targets effectively well beyond a 1911.Oh, yes, because the average shooter can engage with any pistol further than its max range... what a selling point. The crappiest pistol on the market will shoot straighter than most trigger pullers.

5.7 recoil is less the 9mm meaning it will by much easier to shoot and be accurate with.

 

 

 

 

Also for the record I like 45's and 1911's. I have many of them including a 7 grand custom 1911 from the early 90's. With Ball ammo in a military situation the 5.7 outperforms the 45 and 9mm Drastically. 45 and 9mm ball do not expand and are easily stopped by just about every type of cheap com bloc armor. Outperform it in what? Terminal ballistics? No. Body armor penetration, yes.The 5.7 military ball SS190's tip deforms causing the bullet to keyhole and dump all of it's energy in the target. Much like the Russian 5.45 does.

 

 

This is why NATO wanted it to replace the 9mm. I just want the truth to be disused. To many internet commandos pontificate about the 5.7 after never even shooting one and regurgitate miss information from 10 years ago from barf.com.

 

balisticbodyarmorplate.jpg

 

And now with the crap that went down at Hood we have data on the 5.7 in real life shootings.Nice tasteless and baseless argument. If he had used a .22 LR he still could have killed people with well placed shots. Have you actually studied the casualties from the shooting? Done their autopsies? How do you know the 5.7mm was effective at all? There were lots of wounded casualties too.

 

Try as I might, I have never found reliable and trustworthy sources of information that have said anything other than that the 5.7mm has very poor terminal ballistics.

 

This post contains everything except the truth about terminal ballistics and the 5.7mm round.

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