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Letter to American Rifleman

"The article 'FN's FiveseveN System (No.v/Dec. 1999 p.40) seriously misrepresents the wounding capacity of the 31-gr. P90 bullet. Claiming it "produces a wound cavity that is similar to that of the 5.56 mm NATO ammunition is an absurd exaggeration. The 31-gr. P90 bullet has only half the weight of the M16A2 bullet - and its velocity is about 1000 f.p.s. less. (The reference was intended to convey that it is an FMJ design, not that it has equal energy and wounding characteristics to the 5.56x45 mm cartridge. - The Eds).

 

The amount of tissue disruption propduced by the P90 bullet is less than one-third of that produced by a well-designed expanding 9x19mm handgun bullet. And the P90 produces a temporary cavity of only about 8cm diameter - smaller than that of an expanding 9mm handgun bullet. Most of the P90's bullet's wounding potential is wasted in producing a temporary cavity that is too small to be a reliable wounding mechanism. The P90 bullet doesn't even come close to matching the wounding capacity of a well-designed, expanding 9mm handgun bullet.

 

The light recoil of the P90 should hardly come as a surprise: The momentum and kinetic energy of its bullets are only about half that of the .22 Hornet bullet. The P90 bullet's wounding potential is about equal to that of the .22 WMR bullet. The laws of physics cannot be denied - minimal recoil is inconsistent with maximal tissue disruption.

 

For the military, where any wound is often all that is required to cause an enemy soldier to leave the battlefield, perhaps this tiny P90 bullet is OK. Law enforcement officers are often faced with armed violent criminals at close range. In that scenario, a bullet capable of disrupting a significant amount of tissue is needed: One must incapacitate a criminal, a minor wound will not suffice. By no stretch of the imagination is the P90 bullet adequate for that task.

 

References for further reading in the Wound Ballistics Review are: Vol. 3, No. 3, 1998 (pp. 36-37) 'Corrections on the Wound Ballistics of the current FN P90 bullet'; Vol. 3, No. 1, 1997 (pp. 44-45) "more on the bizarre FN P90'; and Vol. 1., No. 1, 1991 (p. 46) 'Description of the first generation P90.' These may be obtained from the IWBA by calling (310) 640-6065, or its website at www.IWBA.com.

 

Marvin L. Fackler, MD, FACS,

President, Int'l Wound Ballistics arse'n.

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I have no doubts it is a capable round, but it will never have the knockdown power that a good .45 has (energy dissipation rate/ impulse).

 

If it doesn't knock you down when you shoot it, it won't knock the target down.

 

It has a very respectable amount of firepower and this makes it attractive. I like it in my vehicle in a seat holster with a rail laser - it makes an awesome rolling rumble weapon, which as I think about it, was about what it was intended for (crew mounted side arm).

WTF? :blink:

 

Conclusion: Reading too many gun magazines!

.

Edited by Retcop

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I love fools who don't have a clue.

 

 

The most recent round of third party testing.

 

 

Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

 

Are you trying to say that the link you posted was a positive review of the 5.7?

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I love fools who don't have a clue.

 

 

The most recent round of third party testing.

 

 

Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

 

I like how they state up front that the 5.7 is ballistically similar to the .22 WMR. Do they make handguns in .22 WMR? Apparently, if loaded with the right bullet, it is a good round for self defense. Probably cheaper than 5.7mm Sparkly Wunder Round.

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5.7mm data write up. Refutes claims that the 5.7mm is an effective round.

 

Just a word to the wise... check out multiple sources of data before purchasing.

 

Cheaper alternative to the FN FiveAndSeven. Keltec PMR-30

 

Hahaha I wouldn't buy the Keltec, but just saying...

 

 

 

The nice thing about Kel Tecs new pistol for the learning impaired it gives a direct side-by-side comparison.

Only a fool would continue to say the 5.7x28 is nothing more then a 22Mag.

 

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Calibers: .22 Magnum

Weight unloaded: 13.6oz.

Loaded Magazine: 6oz.

Length: 7.9"

Height: 5.8"

Width: 1.3"

Barrel length: 4.3"

Sight radius: 6.9"

Energy (40gr V max): 1248fps 138ft-lbs

Capacity: 30 rounds

Trigger pull: 4-6 lbs

 

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/

 

 

 

ProtecTOR Bullet Type: 40gr V-Max (Hornandy)

Application: Home/Self Defense/Law Enforcement/Civilian/CCW

Capabilities: Capable of defeating 30 layers of Kevlar while still penetrating 9.0 inches of 10% ballistic gelatin. Designed to provide good penetration with fragmentation while reducing chances of over penetration.

 

 

FiveseveN Pistol 40gr V-max 2,092 fps-389 ft-lbs

 

http://www.eliteammunition.net/catalog/ite...614/7701264.htm

 

Specifications

 

Weight Empty.................. 1.4 lbs.

Weight Loaded................ 1.6 lbs.

Height.............................. 5.4 in.

Barrel Length................... 4.8 in.

O/A Length....................... 8.2 in.

Sight Radius..................... 6.9 in.

Max Gun Width................. 1.4 in.

Max Grip Thickness........... 1.2 in.

Max Grip Circumference.... 6.0 in.

Trigger Pull....................... 5.5 lbs.

Trigger Span..................... 2.9 in.

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"By Barr H. Soltis with Chuck Hawks"

 

 

Funny in all my years in the industry I have never heard of these two.

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.22 WMR ballistics.

 

30 gr (1.9 g) HP 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 322 ft·lbf (437 J)

40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)

50 gr (3.2 g) JHP 1,650 ft/s (500 m/s) 300 ft·lbf (410 J)

 

WOWIEEE!!!

 

Some factory loaded .22 WMR does not have the same hot ballistics as the 5.7 in a short barrel simply because they are loaded with slower burning rifle powder.

 

I got it, you are trying to sell products. But don't lie to people. You sound like the gun store guy telling some poor sucker that never shot a gun "Oh yeah, the 12 gauge is the best gun for self defense because you don't have to aim it." You are selling snake oil. People, if you want to buy an expensive toy, get a 5.7. You want a defensive weapon, get anything from a 9mm on up, at least you will have a round with verified ballistic performance.

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"By Barr H. Soltis with Chuck Hawks"

 

 

Funny in all my years in the industry I have never heard of these two.

 

Funny, I never heard of you except from your polished turd ammunition claims.

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.22 WMR ballistics.

 

30 gr (1.9 g) HP 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 322 ft·lbf (437 J)

40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)

50 gr (3.2 g) JHP 1,650 ft/s (500 m/s) 300 ft·lbf (410 J)

 

WOWIEEE!!!

 

Some factory loaded .22 WMR does not have the same hot ballistics as the 5.7 in a short barrel simply because they are loaded with slower burning rifle powder.

 

I got it, you are trying to sell products. But don't lie to people. You sound like the gun store guy telling some poor sucker that never shot a gun "Oh yeah, the 12 gauge is the best gun for self defense because you don't have to aim it." You are selling snake oil. People, if you want to buy an expensive toy, get a 5.7. You want a defensive weapon, get anything from a 9mm on up, at least you will have a round with verified ballistic performance.

 

Interesting Fsn 4.75 inch barrel. Funny how you have to use 22mag RIFLE ballistics to bolster you pathetic case.

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Funny, I never heard of you except from your polished turd ammunition claims.

 

You should read Shooting time, Combat handgunner, SGN sometimes. We have been in them many times.

 

 

Better still take a look at the Ammo Encyclopedia we of course are in there.

 

http://www.amazon.com/3rd-Ammo-Encyclopedi...ef=pd_rhf_p_t_1

 

Get a copy and learn something. Put something in your head instead of the BS that flows out.

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Interesting Fsn 4.75 inch barrel. Funny how you have to use 22mag RIFLE ballistics to bolster you pathetic case.

 

You are the one that posted a link to an article that explicitly stated 5.7 ballistics were similar to a .22 WMR. I stated that some of the poorer .22 WMR ballistics were do to slower burning powder... now I will spell it out to you, MEANING that a properly loaded .22 WMR would have comparable ballistics to the 5.7mm. AS IN... capable of achieving similar/same muzzle velocity with similar/same bullet weights from similar/same barrel lengths. Errr... same/similar terminal ballistics.

 

Methinks thou dost protest too much. Reading your "facts" is like reading the Cheaper Than Dirt description for DRT ammunition. All hype, distorted figures, outlandish claims, unbalanced comparisons, and doubletalk. Nothing to justify the price of 5.7 when cheaper and better alternatives are available.

Edited by rifleman2000

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System Generated Message:

 

This Topic has been Closed.

 

 

Reason: This thread has run it's course

Instructions: If you disagree with this action, please contact a member of the Armory Staff and this topic will be reviewed.

 

 

Kind regards,

AR15 Armory.com Staff

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